The Locked up Living Podcast: Surviving and thriving in prisons and other challenging environments

Dr Naomi Murphy, David Jones and Dr Pawel Szczesny have a conversation about AI.

This conversation explores how AI is shaping human thinking, decision-making, creativity, and workplace habits. Dr Szczesny, co-founder and CEO of Impersonato, explains why his company builds synthetic personas as “crash test dummies” for AI systems and why he believes AI should be treated more like a tool than a conversational companion.

We also discuss the risks of over-reliance, especially in mental health, the workplace, and personal identity, plus what healthy AI deployment could look like in organizations.

Impersonato — AI psychology company. We build psychologically realistic crash-test dummies.

Key topics

Pawel Szczesny’s background and development.

He describes a career path spanning experimental biology, computational biology, medical research, pharmaceutical research, pro-cognitive supplements, and psychology of AI systems.

Biology taught him humility: theories about complex systems are usually incomplete, and no system works in isolation.

Why Impersonato exists

How AI mirrors users

Why mirroring can become dangerous

Creativity: individual gains, collective loss

Good AI versus bad AI

Jobs, unemployment, and the “mass layoff” narrative

Why fluent AI sounds authoritative

Pawel says people still confuse polished language with expertise.

He warns that AI can produce beautifully written output that is entirely wrong, especially in areas that cannot be externally verified.

The “Claude Boys” phenomenon

Blurred authorship and reduced enjoyment

Who shapes AI systems

Ethics belongs to humans, not the model

How organizations should use AI

How he uses AI personally, he does not use AI outside work.

 

Timestamps

(00:00) Introduction to Dr Pawel Szczesny and why synthetic personas matter for AI safety

 

(01:05) From biology to psychology through a series of career pivots

 

(03:58) What Inpersonato does and why AI needs crash test dummies

 

(06:21) Testing therapy-support chatbots and companion systems

 

(07:33) How GPT-3 changed Pawel’s view of chatbot behavior

 

(09:25) Why AI mirrors education level, preferences, and psychology

 

(10:24) When AI reinforcement starts to resemble delusion

 

(12:29) How AI responds to loneliness and paranoia in users

 

(14:32) Career changes and subtle language adoption after heavy AI use

 

(16:44) Individual creativity rises, but collective creativity shrinks

 

(19:15) Why the healthiest AI should not rely on a conversational interface

 

(23:28) Lessons from typists, office assistants, and changing work

 

(24:27) Why mass unemployment is more marketing story than reality

 

(28:55) Why fluent writing is mistaken for expertise

 

(31:51) The “Claude Boys” and reverse cyborg behavior

 

(33:59) How constant AI advice can amplify anxiety

 

(35:00) Blurred authorship and the loss of creative joy

 

(37:49) Identity risk when writing or creating stops feeling rewarding

 

(38:48) Why Claude reflects a narrow entrepreneurial worldview

 

(43:52) Why ethics belongs to humans, not the AI model

 

(49:32) How organizations can build healthier AI habits

 

(53:58) A better internal rollout model: let employees experiment first

 

(56:04) How Pavel uses AI personally and why he takes breaks

In this conversation with Naomi Murphy and David Jones Neil shares the raw reality of adopting two siblings in 2023 in this heartfelt episode. From navigating the invasive process to managing the emotional rollercoaster, Neil provides honest insights into a journey many find daunting but rarely talk about openly. If you're considering adoption or simply curious about the unseen side of creating a unique family, this episode offers invaluable perspectives.

Key Topics Covered:

Neil’s motivation for writing his book after adopting two siblings

The emotional challenges of the adoption process and post-placement realities

How the system's focus on children can overlook the feelings of adoptive parents

The impact of trauma responses and differentiating normal toddler behavior from trauma signals

Strategies for managing the stress and emotional numbness during early parenting

The significance of the two-week rule for coping with work stress and family challenges

The disparities in emotional experiences between adoptive parents and their attachment journeys

Insights into the training social workers receive and its focus on worst-case scenarios

Neil’s thoughts on the fairness of resource allocation in fertility treatments

The importance of humour and resilience in processing difficult life experiences

Neil’s involvement in organizing a wellbeing festival and his interest in mental health

Timestamps:

00:00 - Neil’s story: from infertility to adoption and writing his book

 

02:17 - Challenges of the adoption process and systemic focus on protecting children

 

05:03 - Why Neil decided to document his journey for others

 

09:32 - The emotional complexity of IVF and the invasive procedures involved

 

12:32 - Feelings of fairness and resource disparity in fertility treatments

 

15:51 - Managing stress: the two-week rule for coping with family and work challenges

 

18:22 - Improving adoption training and system efficiency

 

24:52 - Differentiating trauma responses from normal behaviour in children

 

27:36 - The emotional numbness during initial parenting and its protective role

 

29:52 - How different attachment experiences influence adoptive parents' journeys

 

38:28 - Addressing unspoken gratitude and the myths of family obligations

 

41:28 - The role of humour in Neil’s approach to life’s difficulties

 

43:19 - Decision-making style and embracing uncertainty in challenging situations

 

46:26 - Neil’s journey into being a published author and his involvement in the wellbeing festival

 

48:19 - Final thoughts and key takeaways

Notable Quotes:

"The process is very child focused, but understanding your own feelings is a whole other conversation."

"You have to think of adoption as a long game—it's about forming attachments slowly, not instant bonds."

In this conversation Naomi Murphy and David Jones explore how systems thinking, internal family systems, and leadership mindset shifts can transform organizations from within. Francisco Baptista shares insights on addressing systemic dysfunction, fostering resilience, and the power of small interventions to create culture change.

In this episode:

The significance of systemic and relational approaches in leadership coaching

How physics and systems thinking reveal organizational dysfunctions missed by psychological lenses

The role of systemic resilience versus individual resilience and how organizations often shift burden onto individuals

Recognizing early warning signs of a culture approaching a breaking point

The importance of naming, making explicit, and working through organizational trauma and ghosts of past events

Practical strategies for leaders to influence culture through small yet impactful interventions

The integration of internal family systems (IFS) and parts work in organizational contexts

How decision-making and responsibility influence resilience and momentum

Protecting personal well-being while delivering tough messages in consultancy

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to systemic coaching and Francisco Baptista's background
01:10 - The shift from technical mastery to relational systemic work
02:22 - How physics and systems thinking provide unique insights into dysfunction
03:49 - Bringing physics into coaching to address organizational culture
04:22 - Systemic resilience versus individual resilience and organizational burdening
06:49 - How organizations unconsciously set their breaking points through tolerated behaviors
07:39 - Recognizing early warning signs of a culture crisis
09:25 - The slow process of cultural degradation and importance of naming trauma
10:50 - The presence of organizational ghosts and collective trauma
12:36 - Dealing with organizational wounds that are hard to talk about
13:30 - Distinguishing genuine change from surface-level coping
14:12 - The influence of coaching on transformation, not just problem-solving
16:18 - The embodied change versus purely intellectual approaches
17:36 - How transformative contact challenges AI and enhances human relational qualities
18:12 - Strategies to help executives navigate systemic thresholds and internal dilemmas
19:58 - Exploring polarity, polarization, and how to shift perspectives
21:36 - Recognizing grey ground and parts work in coaching and organizations
22:13 - Why internal family systems (IFS) works well both individually and collectively
23:37 - Integrating parts and understanding internal managers in organizational contexts
25:50 - Addressing the myth of bad parts and collective scapegoating
27:19 - Leaders' blind spots: projecting harshness onto the market instead of themselves
29:15 - The importance of slack time for organizational learning and innovation
30:08 - Differentiating external pressure from internal stress and building boundaries
32:36 - Handling organizations that resist change through personal responsibility and decision-making
34:22 - Advice for individuals in brutal systems: ownership and decision sovereignty
36:00 - Small interventions with the potential for cultural shifts, exemplified by leadership and visibility
37:55 - The impact of values like grit on organizational burnout and pace
39:07 - Protecting coaches’ well-being while delivering tough truths
40:14 - Cultivating purpose, fulfillment, and alignment in coaching practice
41:16 - The role of inner walls, transgenerational beliefs, and breaking down barriers
42:31 - Overcoming organizational trauma echoes from penal systems to corporate environments
42:53 - Final thoughts: systemic work as a pathway to resilience and transformationResources & Links:

Conference of the Birds ;  https://www.franciscobaptista.com/conference

https://ifs-institute.com/

Rhia Canady (Video); Building Bridges: How Fly Girl Foundation Supports Women Post-Incarceration

In this episode Naomi Murphy and David Jones meet Rhia Canady who shares her powerful journey from incarceration to founding Fly Girl Foundation, highlighting resilience, community support, and the importance of targeted interventions for women with lived experience of the criminal justice system.

https://www.flygirlfoundation.co.uk/

keywords; prison reform, women empowerment, lived experience, social impact, Fly Girl Foundation, rehabilitation, community support

key topics

Rhia Canady’s personal journey through incarceration and trauma

The founding and mission of Fly Girl Foundation

The importance of support systems for women leaving prison

Challenges faced during legal proceedings and reintegration

The role of community and mentorship in recovery and empowerment

Experiences of prison life and the impact of routine and relationships

The significance of early intervention and prevention for at-risk youth

Rhia’s work with Eastwood Park and prison reentry programs

The emotional toll of trauma and coping strategies

The importance of self-care and professional support for social workers and advocates

takeaways

Support networks are crucial for women reentering society after prison

Early intervention can prevent women from entering the criminal justice system

Routine and community connections aid in recovery and reintegration

Self-care and professional support are vital for those working with trauma

Legal battles can be navigated successfully with determination and evidence

Sound Bites

"Prison's awful, but it teaches resilience."

"Routine and community support aid recovery."

"Support networks are crucial for women reentering society."

Chapters

00:00Introduction to Rhia Canady and her background

02:09Rhia’s journey through trauma and incarceration

04:03Reflections on prison life and emotional challenges

05:56Reentry into society and the start of Fly Girl Foundation

07:52The impact of community support and mentorship

09:47Experiences of legal battles and overcoming obstacles

11:54The importance of early prevention and intervention

14:00Supporting women and young girls through education and empowerment

16:02Returning to Eastwood Park and reflections on progress

18:14The emotional toll of trauma and coping mechanisms

19:50The role of physical activity and routine in healing

22:10Supporting women at the moment of release from prison

23:48The significance of community and peer support

26:09Legal challenges and fighting for justice

27:59The importance of self-belief and resilience

29:46The future of Fly Girl Foundation and ongoing projects

32:03Advice for others working in social justice and support

33:52Closing thoughts and message of hope

In this fascinating episode, Naomi and David talk with Leon Towers who shares his extraordinary journey from a challenging childhood in foster care to becoming a multifaceted professional, including roles as  a performer, dog behaviourist, and advocate. His story highlights resilience, forgiveness, and finding purpose in helping others, all while navigating complex personal struggles.

Main Topics Covered:

Leon’s early life in foster care and the childhood adversities that shaped him

The impact of childhood trauma on trust, vulnerability, and social relationships

How therapy, self-awareness, and forgiveness foster healing and growth

The significance of purpose: from dreaming of TV stardom to helping people and animals

Transitioning careers: from boy band vocals to dog hydrotherapist and behaviouralist

The lessons dogs teach about human emotion, trauma, and forgiveness

The importance of freedom, boundaries, and letting go of toxic relationships

Insights into resilience, resourcefulness, and making meaningful change

The role of spirituality, kindness, and love in mental and emotional wellbeing

Practical advice for those feeling trapped by their past to find hope and change

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction and Leon’s background in overcoming adversity
01:06 - Childhood in care: stigma and early influences
02:04 - How media influenced perceptions of childhood adversity
03:03 - Impact on friendships and social environment
04:31 - Childhood labels and their emotional weight
05:22 - Lessons from difficult childhood: trust and vulnerability
05:52 - How childhood experiences shape adult trust and suspicion
07:19 - Vulnerability and naive trust: the risks of openness
08:47 - Managing social perceptions and approaches to trust
09:46 - Dealing with rejection and misunderstanding in social settings
10:25 - Healing through rehab and EMDR therapy
11:23 - Rediscovering kindness and emotional expression
12:50 - Life transitions: from music and entertainment to dog therapy
13:09 - Personal spiritual visions and purpose at age 8
14:38 - Childhood resourcefulness: using imagination as a survival tool
16:37 - The accidental journey into dog hydrotherapy
18:07 - Learning and qualifications in dog behaviour
19:59 - Working with challenging dogs and trust issues
21:22 - Making sense of seemingly unrelated career paths
22:36 - The impact of negative foster experiences and finding a voice
23:34 - Childhood silence and the significance of expression
24:33 - Imaginary escapes and how fantasy helped survive trauma
26:01 - Forgiveness and emotional detachment as pathways to freedom
27:28 - Resourcefulness: focusing on hope and survival
28:51 - Letting go of hate and embracing emotional resilience
29:19 - Instinctive kindness and natural forgiveness
30:19 - The importance of freedom in healing and life choices
32:18 - Parallels between human and dog behaviour in trauma response
34:13 - Lessons from dogs about emotional health and human behaviour
35:12 - Reinventing careers: courage and inevitable fear
36:02 - Moving beyond toxicity and the importance of self-belief
37:56 - The cyclic nature of life journeys and purpose
39:22 - Defining a purposeful life: helping others and spiritual growth
40:20 - Following love's guiding principle in decision-making
41:04 - Advice for those feeling trapped by their history
42:01 - How change begins within: inner transformation as key
43:24 - Personal stories of survival and resourcefulness
44:50 - Words to younger self: focus on identity, self-belief, and authenticity
46:09 - Reflections on growth, change, and staying true to oneself
47:07 - Closing notes and gratitude

https://www.linkedin.com/in/leon-towers-6899791ba/

https://thepowerofdog.com/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fix-Your-Three-Easy-Steps/dp/1788405005