Decoder with Nilay Patel

My guest today is Ryan Mac, a technology reporter at The New York Times and co-author of the excellent book Character Limit: How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter, which came out in 2024. I wanted to have Ryan on today because we’re on the cusp of the SpaceX IPO, which promises to be one of the most consequential public offerings in history for a variety of reasons. 

Its biggest-ever size, of course, at nearly $2 trillion dollars. But also because all kinds of rules that keep our markets fair are being bent, if not outright broken, along the way. And, also because buried somewhere inside SpaceX is X, the social platform formerly known as Twitter, which Musk purchased in 2022.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

Welcome to hell, Elon | The Verge

The SpaceX IPO is great for Elon Musk and terrible for you | The Verge

In SpaceX’s IPO, Elon Musk is the risk factor | The Verge

For Wall Street, the only thing worse than SpaceX flopping is missing out | NYT

How SpaceX Is structured to favor Elon Musk | NYT

As the SpaceX hype machine steamrolls ahead, Wall Street jumps aboard | NYT

The SpaceX IPO Reveals What Really Happened to Twitter | NY Mag

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Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
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I last talked to Recording Academy CEO Harvey Mason Jr in 2024 — when it was obvious that generative AI would upend the music industry, but not exactly clear how that would happen.

Now, Harvey says AI is “omnipresent” in music production. So what kinds of tools are musicians using, in what way, and what kind of music is it making for us? Is it any good? And how do we identify, and take care of, actual human musicians in this mess?

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

Why the Grammys need to change, with CEO Harvey Mason Jr | Decoder

Is ‘blue dot fever’ a real problem for the concert industry? | Los Angeles Times

USA v. LiveNation-Ticketmaster: All the news | The Verge

The future of country music is here, and it’s AI | The Verge

Poll: AI is transforming how we think about music | Hollywood Reporter

Inside the ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ era of AI in music | Rolling Stone

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Wassym Bensaid, the chief software officer at Rivian, and the co-ceo of Rivian’s platform joint venture with Volkswagen. That joint venture, called RV Tech, is about a year and a half old, so I wanted to ask Wassym how it all works and Rivian’s ongoing relationship with Volkswagen. 

Because it’s Rivian, I also had to ask Wassym about CarPlay. But the company also just launched an AI-powered voice assistant, which I got to try early. So I had a lot of fun digging into that with Wassym, too. This is a fun one – really in the weeds of a lot of my favorite things to talk about.

Links: 

Rivian’s AI-powered voice assistant is ready to roll | The Verge

The R2 is nearly here — can Rivian stick the landing? | The Verge

Rivian’s AI pivot is about more than chasing Tesla | The Verge

Rivian / VW will start testing their first EVs next year | The Verge

Rivian CEO: ‘We’re really convicted’ about skipping CarPlay | Decoder (2025)

Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe says too many carmakers are copying Tesla | Decoder (2024)

Rivian CEO RJ Scaringe isn't scared of the Cybertruck | Decoder (2023)

Rivian’s chief software officer says in-car buttons are ‘an anomaly’ | TechCrunch

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt,. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Connecting with Google CEO Sundar Pichai at I/O every year is one of my favorite Decoder traditions. This was our fifth year doing it, and there’s always a whole slew of new things to talk about.

This year, in addition to the news, we talked about Google Zero; picking fights with YouTube creators and publishers; and what being at “the foothills of the singularity" even means.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

If Google can’t make AI agents useful, maybe no one can | The Verge

The future of Google is a search box that does everything | The Verge

Large language mistake | The Verge

You can now remix other people’s YouTube Shorts with AI | The Verge

Condé Nast calls Google Zero | The Verge

Demis Hassabis said this may be the ‘foothills of the singularity’ | The Verge

Google I/O 2026: All the news and announcements | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Musk v Altman was nominally about OpenAI's conversion to a for-profit entity, and how it went about that change. But really, the suit seems mostly to have been about Elon Musk being mad at Sam Altman — or at OpenAI, for being successful without him — and wanting him punished in some way.

Verge reporter Liz Lopatto spent the last month covering the trial, in all its chaos, and joins Decoder to ask: In a courtroom full of untrustworthy, unreliable people all fighting with each other, did anyone even have a reputation left to lose?

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links: 

Elon Musk loses his case against Sam Altman | The Verge

Musk v. Altman proved AI is led by the wrong people | The Verge

Musk v. Altman accomplished nothing but airing dirty laundry | The Verge

Elon Musk’s worst enemy in court is Elon Musk | The Verge

Behold, the Elon Musk jackass trophy | The Verge

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Kate Cox and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane. 

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices