Being Well with Forrest Hanson and Dr. Rick Hanson

Have you ever walked back into your parents' house and suddenly felt like you'd downloaded an old version of yourself? In today’s episode, Dr. Rick and Forrest explain why through one of the most influential frameworks in psychology: Family Systems Theory (FST). 

FST argues that hidden rules govern the behavior of the groups we’re a part of, and when you know the rules it’s easier to see them in action. Rick and Forrest explore how systems replicate patterns of behavior, place people into specific roles, and manage anxiety through shifting alliances. They close with how we can become differentiated by building a stronger sense of self. Topics include balancing closeness and distance, triangulation, specific roles like the “golden child,” FST’s non-pathologizing stance, the intergenerational transmission of patterns, and building strong relationships outside the system.

This episode includes references to self-harm.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro

2:19: What’s Family Systems Theory?

12:01: Overview of big concepts in FST

18:50: Family roles

25:19: How anxiety moves through a family system

36:42: The “identified patient”

46:51: Balancing compassion, agency, and responsibility

51:11: How healthy differentiation can disrupt a system

57:48: How to become more differentiated

1:11:33: Recap 

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Forrest is joined by journalist and author Michael Easter to discuss how we can make our lives better by making them (the right kind of) harder. They start with one of modern life’s paradoxes: things have gotten much easier, but this hasn’t led to more happiness or fulfillment. Michael talks about how our biological wiring backfires in today’s world of abundance, why humans need a mission, and the vital experiences we’ve lost. Other topics include problem creep, how everything has become a slot machine, rucking, and the “super medium” body.

About our Guest: Michael Easter is a professor at the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, journalist, and best-selling author of The Comfort Crisis, Scarcity Brain, and Walk with Weight. Michael is also the author of the #1 Substack in the Health & Wellness category, Two Percent.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro

2:10: How our world became engineered for comfort

7:39: Problem creep

10:49: Michael’s experience with sobriety

15:00: Abundance in today’s world: the industrial revolution, social media, and slot machines

21:17: Why we need a mission

25:31: Building resilience in a world of comfort and abundance

29:30: Personal agency vs systemic forces

38:09: The lost experience of boredom

48:19: Walking with weight

1:00:46: Getting back into nature

1:10:41: Recap

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Dr. Rick and Forrest answer listener questions about the freeze state, ADHD, and power imbalances in relationships. First, they talk about how to deal with feelings of shame associated with the freeze state, emphasizing how we can “be with” in order to “work with.” Then they tackle a tricky question about how psychoeducation can complicate relationships. Next up, they discuss whether rates of ADHD have actually increased, and the differences between “real” ADHD vs. symptoms of screen addiction. Finally, they talk about how to think about the right fit with a therapist. 

Key Topics: 

0:00: Introduction

1:17: Question 1: Shame and the freeze state

19:12: Question 2: “My partner’s lack of psychoeducation is frustrating me!”

33:56: Question 3: “Why does everyone have ADHD?”

46:21: Question 4: “What’s the right amount of directness in therapy?”

56:01: Recap

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Protect your peace, set boundaries, don't let people drain your energy…there’s a lot of advice like that, and it’s easy to take it a little too far. Therapist and bestselling author Nedra Glover Tawwab joins Forrest to discuss the unintended consequences of the boundaries movement. 

They talk about how the helpful concept of boundaries led some toward isolation and rigid standards, and focus on healthy dependency: the reality that we all need other people. Nedra explains the spectrum from codependency to hyper-independence, why your attachment style is more flexible than you think, and how the stories we tell about ourselves become self-fulfilling. Throughout, they focus on developing key aspects of healthy dependency: being able to ask for help, receive support, tolerate distance, feel comfortable in closeness, and repair after conflict. 

About our Guest: Nedra Glover Tawwab is a licensed therapist, relationship expert, and best-selling author with over 2 million followers on social media. Her new book is The Balancing Act: Creating Healthy Dependency and Connection Without Losing Yourself.

Key Topics: 

0:00: Intro: Misconceptions around boundaries

7:14: What we get wrong about codependency

11:13: The consequences of individualism

15:00: How this all relates to attachment styles

20:03: Personal narratives and self-concept

24:50: Opposite action vs. trusting your gut

27:46: Developing self-awareness around your tendencies

34:42: Navigating distance and boundaries in relationships

44:30: Showing up for friends in difficult relationships

52:50: How to be in imperfect relationships 

55:51: How to move out of the shallow zone in relationships 

1:07:20: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

Grab Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code BEINGWELL at huel.com/beingwell. New customers only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show!

Go to Zocdoc.com/BEING to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.

Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/beingwell.
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What is mindfulness really? According to one fourth-grader, "Not hitting someone in the mouth." Legendary meditation teacher Sharon Salzberg joins Rick and Forrest to discuss how we can work skillfully with anger, fear, and reactivity without becoming doormats or numbing ourselves out through the lens of her new children’s book Kind Karl.

They explore the protective function of anger, and how we can create more space by relating differently to our thoughts, emotions, and sense of self. Sharon shares a Buddhist lens that links anger and fear, and how looking closely at “what’s in the anger” can help us get clarity without collateral damage. Along the way, they talk about the difference between healthy moral anger and the habit of anger, how to extract the positive energy from difficult emotions without getting burned, and how lovingkindness and self-compassion can be active, strengthening forces. 

About our Guest: Sharon Salzberg is the co-founder of the Insight Meditation Society, a world-renowned teacher of mindfulness, and author or co-author of 14 books including her seminal work Lovingkindness and her first children’s book Kind Karl: A Little Crocodile with Big Feelings.

Key Topics:

0:00: Intro and Sharon’s new children’s book

1:30: Rick and Sharon’s personal history

3:40: Making abstract concepts direct and simple

6:00: “Mindfulness means not hitting someone in the mouth.”

12:30: Equanimity, reactivity, and our relationship with pleasure and pain

26:48: Healthy moral anger and outrage

34:17: How mindfulness decenters the self

43:53: Decoupling identity from states of suffering

50:23: Dissolving boundaries, self protection, and loneliness

1:03:09: Recap

Support the Podcast: We're on Patreon! If you'd like to support the podcast, follow this link.

Sponsors

Go to Zocdoc.com/BEING to find and instantly book a top-rated doctor today.

Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/beingwell. 
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