E185: The Challenges with Monetizing Open Source with the Creator of Rich + Textual
In our latest episode, Robby and Tim talk with Will McGugan, creator of the Rich and Textual open source projects and founder of Textualize and Toad (not yet released), about the challenges of turning beloved open-source projects into real businesses. Despite Rich and Textual's huge adoption in the Python community, he says he waited too long to monetize, focused too much on technical perfection, and tried to build infrastructure before a killer product. He also burned himself out and wishes he had simplified and hired earlier.McGugan believes the terminal is a neglected but essential interface, prized for speed and flow. Rich and Textual modernized terminal output, but monetizing open-core dev tools proved difficult. His new project, Toad, aims to be a universal AI front-end for the terminal - open-source, protocol-driven, and able to plug into different agent back ends like Claude and others. The goal: seamless workflows and modern UX in the environment developers already live in.Big takeaways: monetize early, ship a killer app sooner, don’t overcomplicate structure, and avoid grinding yourself into the ground.
--------
34:02
--------
34:02
E184: Building the Browser for AI - the Browserbase Story
In this episode, we sit down with Paul Klein IV, Founder & CEO of Browserbase, to explore how his team is redefining the foundation of AI-driven browser automation. Browserbase provides the web browser infrastructure for AI agents and apps, and its open-source SDK, Stagehand, lets developers write automations using natural language - adapting seamlessly as websites evolve.Paul shares his belief that browser automation is a critical but underinvested primitive that future AI applications will depend on for years. He traces the journey from the limitations of traditional headless browsers and brittle RPA tools to the emergence of a cleaner, more adaptable framework built for the AI era.We dive into:Stagehand’s design philosophy: minimal feature bloat and strong abstractions.Developer-first community: TypeScript and Python support driven by user demand and open-source contributions prioritized through community PRs.Director, Browserbase’s new layer for non-technical users: “if v0 was for building websites, Director is for building automations.”How open source investment fuels both innovation and integration, and why Browserbase believes the next billion-dollar company will be built on top of its framework.The evolving relationship between AI agents and the web, touching on Cloudflare, automation ethics, and where the line lies between automation and scraping.Paul also reflects on inspiration from figures like Jeff Lawson, the importance of great abstractions for new developers, and the “moment of magic” when AI begins to work on your behalf.
--------
43:21
--------
43:21
E183: Why English Isn't a Programming Language - the BAML Story
This episode dives into why code quality still matters in the age of AI, and why English - no matter how good models get - won’t replace programming.Our guest is Co-Founder of Boundary, Vaibhav Gupta, and he shares the journey behind BAML, a new programming language to write and manage AI logic. After 12 pivots and 3.5 years, the team realized something simple but powerful:AI tools were evolving fast, but the code was ugly.Most AI generated code was unnecessarily long and messy. For builders who viewed code as artistic expression, that was painful. Once they tried BAML, everything changed. It was clean, elegant - completely the opposite of AI slop.It wasn’t an overnight success. It took nine months to reach ten users — but the early ones stayed because of thoughtful design:Easy model swappingFull visibility into every prompt and test caseA workflow so simple that non-technical users (even lawyers!) could test codeBAML was built with a philosophy that code is the source of truth, not the docs.The conversation touches on how LLM observability and thoughtfully designed code make BAML unique. It’s inspired by the same thinking that made React sticky - beauty and composability.Pretty code, the founder believes, isn’t vanity - it’s a functional advantage:Fewer bugsEasier to reason aboutFriendlier for AI-generated systems
--------
37:26
--------
37:26
E182: The Rise of ClickHouse
In the episode, we sat down with ClickHouse Co-Founder Yury Izrailevsky to unpack how one of the fastest open-source databases in the world became the analytics engine of choice for 2,000 customers including Harvey, Canva, HP, and Supabase. From its Yandex origins to powering AI observability, Yury shares how ClickHouse balances open-source roots, cloud innovation, and a remote-first culture moving at breakneck speed.ClickHouse's Series C valued the company at $6.35B earlier this year, and just yesterday they announced an extension to that round, just months after it was raised. In this episode, we dig into:Origins & Founding StoryClickHouse began as an internal project at Yandex to power a Google Analytics–style platform, focused on performance and scale.Open-sourced in 2016 - rapid global adoption laid the foundation for ClickHouse the company. Yury first discovered ClickHouse while at Google; impressed by its speed, he later co-founded the company in 2021 alongside Aaron Katz (ex-Elastic) and the original creator Alexey Milovidov.Why ClickHouse Stands OutColumn-oriented, open source OLAP database designed for massive-scale analytical processing.Excels in performance, efficiency, and cost - ideal for large data volumes and real-time analytics (and now AI workloads). Architectural choices:Columnar storage = better compression and faster execution.Separation of compute and storage enables elasticity, scalability, and resilience in the cloud.Open Source vs. CloudOpen-source version offers freedom and flexibility.Cloud product delivers much lower total cost of ownership and fully managed experience.Architectural parity between the two ensuring no vendor lock-in for customers. Customers can run the same queries on both; most stay with cloud due to simplicity and cost efficiency.Use Cases & Ecosystem4 main use cases:Real-time analyticsData WarehousingObservability AI / ML WorkloadsCompany Building & CultureFully remote from day one.Prioritized experienced, self-sufficient engineers over early-career hires.Built and launched GA version in less than a year - insane pace of innovation.Innovation & CommunityMonthly release cadence.Hundreds of integrations and connectors.Strong open-source and commercial communityAdvice for FoundersFocus on what matters most Hire mature, independent thinkers.Move fast but maintain quality; ClickHouse Cloud achieved production-grade quality in record time.
--------
47:02
--------
47:02
E181: Why Multimodal Is the Future of AI Data Workloads
Chang She is Co-Founder & CEO of LanceDB, the multimodal lakehouse platform. Their open source data format lance has over 5K stars on GitHub and is a modern columnar data format for ML and LLMs implemented in Rust.LanceDB has raised $41M from investors including Theory Ventures, CRV, and Essence VC. In this episode, we dig into:Early focus: autonomous vehicles; solved real-time analysis limits with Lance format → 9,000% performance gain.Multi-modal AI taking off (vision, audio, text); Midjourney & Runway as pioneers; audio now a major category.How they built trust through open source.Integrated workflows (data prep + search + embedding) going beyond vector DBs; education needed to show full value.Cloud/serverless launch in 2023–24 enabled seamless local-to-production use.Future bets: audio infra, robotics, spatial reasoning; vector DBs risk irrelevance if they don’t evolve.
The leading podcast on how to build a successful open source company.
Learn from the founders of HashiCorp, Chronosphere, Vercel, MongoDB, DBT, mobile.dev and more!
France