The Rest Is Classified

The world of surveillance has changed beyond recognition over the past 25 years with the advent of technology. From CCTV cameras to cookie tracking, it's not so easy to escape the long arm of the intelligence services in 2025. David and Gordon are joined by the CIA's first Chief of Tradecraft and Operational Technology, Glenn Chafetz, to explore the ever-changing world of ubiquitous technical surveillance and why the Chinese state is upping their capabilities in this space. ------------------- Make someone a Declassified Club Member in 2026 – go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠⁠therestisclassified.com⁠ or join on Apple Podcasts. ------------------- THE REST IS CLASSIFIED LIVE 2026: Buy your tickets ⁠⁠⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠⁠⁠ to see David and Gordon live on stage at London’s Southbank Centre on 31 January. ------------------- Try Attio for free at ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.attio.com/tric⁠⁠⁠⁠ ------------------- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/restisclassified⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee  ------------------- Email: ⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified Social Producer: Emma Jackson Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bill Donovan has set himself up across an entire floor of the swanky London hotel, Claridge’s. From here he is now running international intelligence operations and laying plans for the future of espionage in the United States. But, his arch nemesis, J. Edgar Hoover has an alternative vision for how these lofty ideas should play out. Listen as David and Gordon continue their tale of Wild Bill Donovan: the man who laid the foundations for the modern CIA.  ------------------- Make someone a Declassified Club Member this Christmas – go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠⁠https://therestisclassified.supportingcast.fm/gifts⁠⁠ And of course, you can still join for yourself any time at ⁠therestisclassified.com⁠ or on Apple Podcasts. ------------------- THE REST IS CLASSIFIED LIVE 2026: Buy your tickets ⁠⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠⁠ to see David and Gordon live on stage at London’s Southbank Centre on 31 January. ------------------- Try Attio for free at ⁠⁠⁠https://www.attio.com/tric⁠⁠⁠ ------------------- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/restisclassified⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee  ------------------- Email: ⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified Social Producer: Emma Jackson Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

“Wild” Bill Donovan laid the template for the formation of the modern CIA, but this wasn’t the way his life was supposed to turn out. A working class boy from Buffalo, Bill dreamt of something better for himself. These dreams took him to the trenches of Belgium and the beaches of Normandy, then to the halls of power themselves.  This is the story of the man behind the CIA. From decorated war hero to an eccentric establishment figure, listen as David and Gordon tell the story of Wild Bill Donovan. ------------------- Make someone a Declassified Club Member this Christmas – go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠https://therestisclassified.supportingcast.fm/gifts⁠ And of course, you can still join for yourself any time at ⁠therestisclassified.com⁠ or on Apple Podcasts. ------------------- THE REST IS CLASSIFIED LIVE 2026: Buy your tickets ⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠ to see David and Gordon live on stage at London’s Southbank Centre on 31 January. ------------------- Try Attio for free at ⁠⁠https://www.attio.com/tric⁠⁠ ------------------- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/restisclassified⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee  ------------------- Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified Social Producer: Emma Jackson Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Nine people dead. A severed head laying motionless in the rubble. Silence punctuated by screams. The moments after the 2009 Camp Chapman attack sound like something out of a horror film, but this was the devastating reality for those who trusted an Al Qaeda double agent to deliver on his promises. In this episode, David and Gordon reach the climax of their series on one of the deadliest days in CIA history.  ------------------- Make someone a Declassified Club Member this Christmas – go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠https://therestisclassified.supportingcast.fm/gifts⁠ And of course, you can still join for yourself any time at ⁠therestisclassified.com⁠ or on Apple Podcasts. ------------------- THE REST IS CLASSIFIED LIVE 2026: Buy your tickets ⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠ to see David and Gordon live on stage at London’s Southbank Centre on 31 January. ------------------- Try Attio for free at ⁠⁠https://www.attio.com/tric⁠⁠ ------------------- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/restisclassified⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee  ------------------- Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified Social Producer: Emma Jackson Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennifer Matthews was one of the most capable and formidable CIA analysts working in the Counter Terrorism Centre during the War on Terror. She was also underestimated by her male colleagues who doubted she had what it took to run one of the most dangerous stations in Afghanistan. When Matthews took the post of CIA station chief at Camp Chapman, she knew the risks she faced. But, what she didn’t know was that Al Qaeda were training a double agent who sought to bring the War on Terror to her front door.  Listen as David and Gordon chart the preparations for al-Balawi’s arrival at Camp Chapman and why the intelligence received by the CIA and GID may have been fatally flawed.  ------------------- Make someone a Declassified Club Member this Christmas – go deeper into the world of espionage with exclusive Q&As, interviews with top intelligence insiders, regular livestreams, ad-free listening, early access to episodes and live show tickets, and weekly deep dives into original spy stories. Members also get curated reading lists, special book discounts, prize draws, and access to our private chat community. Just go to ⁠https://therestisclassified.supportingcast.fm/gifts⁠ And of course, you can still join for yourself any time at ⁠therestisclassified.com⁠ or on Apple Podcasts. ------------------- THE REST IS CLASSIFIED LIVE 2026: Buy your tickets ⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠ to see David and Gordon live on stage at London’s Southbank Centre on 31 January. ------------------- Try Attio for free at ⁠⁠https://www.attio.com/tric⁠⁠ ------------------- EXCLUSIVE NordVPN Deal ➼ ⁠⁠https://nordvpn.com/restisclassified⁠⁠ Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee  ------------------- Email: ⁠[email protected]⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@restisclassified Social Producer: Emma Jackson Producer: Becki Hills Head of History: Dom Johnson Exec Producer: Tony Pastor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices