Decoder with Nilay Patel

The biggest story in tech right now is the spiraling debate about AI safety and regulation. The CEOs of all these companies have issued various calls to slow down development and develop regulation, including asking for antitrust exemptions so they can all coordinate on safety issues.

So to make sense of it all, I called Jonathan Kanter, the former antitrust chief for the U.S. Department of Justice in the Biden Administration. There's a lot going on, and we really got into the weeds of how all this regulation might work, and how it might interact with antitrust law, competition policy, and our relationship with China.

Links:

Is Big Tech’s AI slowdown a safety pact or a cartel? | The Verge

Inside the suddenly explosive world of AI safety | The Verge

Execs and politicians on slowing down AI development | The Verge

Microsoft AI CEO: AI threats are real, Anthropic makes it worse | The Verge

Lina Khan: We don’t need new laws to prosecute AI CEOs | Gizmodo

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Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today, I’m talking with Mustafa Suleyman, the CEO of Microsoft AI. As you’re no doubt aware, the biggest story in tech right now is the spiraling debate about AI safety and regulation. So I really wanted to talk to Mustafa about what he thinks is real and not in AI safety, whether the concept of alignment itself is up to the task, and whether this industry needs to slow down before it kills us all.

Read the ⁠full interview transcript on The Verge⁠.

Links:

A warning about ‘model welfare’ | Mustafa Suleyman

Humanist AI Code of Conduct | Microsoft

Is Big Tech’s AI slowdown a safety pact or a cartel? | The Verge

A brief history of AI executives calling for regulation | The Verge

What execs and politicians are saying about slowing down AI development | The Verge

Anthropic CEO says it’s time to pump the brakes on AI | The Verge

Microsoft’s AI chief says superintelligence is near, but won’t take your job | Decoder (2026)

Mustafa Suleyman says conversational AI is the next web browser | Decoder (2024)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Kabir Chopra. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Adam Conover is a familiar face to anyone who’s spent time on the internet. He got his start at CollegeHumor back in the day, before transitioning into cable TV with Adam Ruins Everything, then onto Netflix, and all the way back to YouTube again, where he posts videos and hosts a podcast.

That is exactly the kind of career path that fascinates me, and it also happens to touch on basically every major Decoder theme there is.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

YouTube is making it harder to earn money on YouTube | The Verge

Adam Conover regrets shilling Sam Altman’s World | The Verge

Elon Musk is an idiot | Adam Conover

How HBO’s creatives survived corporate chaos | Decoder

YouTube’s Neal Mohan on the future for creators | Decoder (2021)

Banning Trump was the right decision, says Instagram’s Mosseri | Decoder (2021)

Ethics in journalism, with Ben Smith | Decoder

Hank Green will gladly take billionaires’ money for education | Decoder

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder’s producers are Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Xander Adams. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We’re back with another Decoder mailbag special. This time, we focused on feedback to Nilay’s “software brain” video essay, our ongoing coverage of AI and Big Tech backlash, surveillance, interviewing politicians ahead of the midterms, and more.

Remember: we really do read every email, so please keep sending us your feedback, and letting us know what you think of our coverage and how we can improve.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

How to win — and lose — Decoder | Decoder Mailbag (2026)

Nilay answers your burning Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2025)

Answering your biggest Decoder questions | Decoder Mailbag (2024)

Sundar Pichai on AI, search, and the future of the web | Decoder (2026)

The people do not yearn for automation | Decoder

Bluesky’s new CEO wants a big tent, not a bubble | Decoder

New York Governor Kathy Hochul thinks AI should be ‘less evil’ | Decoder

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Gregg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt and edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

My guest today is Sonos CEO Tom Conrad. Tom was on the board at Sonos during the disastrous 2024 app redesign that threatened to crash the entire brand, and he took over as interim CEO to right the ship during that period. About a year ago, he took the permanent role.

I have been dying to have Tom on the show to talk about how the board decided to move on from previous CEO Patrick Spence, how he diagnosed the issues inside the company, and what decisions he made to fix them. Plus. Tom was willing to get into the weeds and nerd out with me, and I think this one is pretty fun because of it.

Read the full interview transcript on The Verge.

Links:

After two years of turmoil, Sonos attempts a triumphant return | The Verge

How Sonos’ Tom Conrad Is reshaping the brand after app disaster | Bloomberg

An in-depth interview with Sonos interim CEO Tom Conrad | The Verge (2025)

Sonos’ smart assistant is expanding from music to home control | The Verge

Inside Sonos’ decision to sue Google — and how it won | Decoder (2022)

Subscribe to The Verge to access the ad-free version of Decoder!

Credits:

Decoder is a production of The Verge and part of the Vox Media Podcast Network.

Decoder is produced by Greg Ott, Kate Cox, and Nick Statt. This episode was edited by Ursa Wright. Our editorial director is Kevin McShane.

The Decoder music is by Breakmaster Cylinder.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices