The Sustainable Healthcare Podcast

Tackling Pharmaceutical Pollution: A Systems-Based Approach

In this episode of the Sustainable Healthcare Podcast, host Frederik Dam van Deurs welcomes Kelly Thornber, a researcher and advocate for addressing pharmaceutical pollution. Kelly shares her journey from working in Bangladesh to identifying pharmaceutical pollution as a global issue, and discusses the systems-based approach needed to mitigate its risks to public and environmental health.

Episode Summary
Kelly Thornber discusses the complexity of pharmaceutical pollution and the need for a systems-based strategy to address it. She highlights the importance of understanding the entire lifecycle of pharmaceuticals, from manufacture to disposal, and the role of various stakeholders in creating a sustainable solution.

Key Topics CoveredIntroduction to Kelly Thornber:Kelly discusses her background and how she became interested in pharmaceutical pollution while working in Bangladesh.
Her journey into sustainability and how her department is driving change within the company.

Understanding Pharmaceutical Pollution:The importance of addressing pharmaceutical pollution and its impact on public and environmental health.
The complexity of the pharmaceutical system and the need for a systems-based approach to mitigate risks.

The Role of the Pharma Pollution Hub:Kelly’s work with the Pharma Pollution Hub and their efforts to advocate for changes in the pharmaceutical industry.
The need for independent facilitation and oversight to drive meaningful change.

Identifying Intervention Points:The 37 intervention points identified in Kelly’s paper and the importance of starting with actionable steps.
The role of stakeholders in implementing these interventions and the need for collaboration.

Notable Quotes"Pharmaceuticals are designed to be biologically active, and that means they can have physiological effects in non-target species." - Kelly Thornber
"We need to take a systems approach to address the complex issue of pharmaceutical pollution." - Kelly Thornber
Resources MentionedPharma Pollution Hub: Pharma Pollution Hub Website
Pharmaceutical Pollution Paper: Read the Paper
Call to ActionShare your thoughts: What role should the pharmaceutical industry play in addressing pollution? Connect with Frederik on LinkedIn to share your insights.
Subscribe and Share: Help spread the word about sustainable healthcare by subscribing to the podcast and sharing this episode with your network.
Host: Frederik Dam van Deurs Guest: Kelly Thornber, Researcher and Advocate for Pharmaceutical Pollution

Guest: Tamara, PhD Candidate at TU Delft, Department of Sustainable Design Engineering

Episode Summary In this episode of the Sustainable Healthcare Podcast, host Frederik Dam van Deurs welcomes Tamara, a researcher and entrepreneur specializing in circular economy principles for healthcare. Tamara shares her groundbreaking work on the Visual Taxonomy of Circular Healthcare Flows (CHF), a comprehensive map designed to guide sustainable decision-making for medical devices from design to end-of-life. Key Topics Covered
The Visual Taxonomy of Circular Healthcare FlowsTamara introduces her visual taxonomy, which maps out circular economy strategies for medical devices. The taxonomy is designed to clarify the often-confusing terminology (e.g., "reuse" vs. "recycling") and provide actionable pathways for sustainability.
Visual Reference: Visual Taxonomy of Circular Healthcare Flows (CHF)

Misconceptions in Circular Economy TerminologyTamara highlights common misunderstandings, such as the difference between "reuse" and "recycling," and the healthcare-specific term "reprocessing." She emphasizes the importance of clarity in communication to avoid unintended environmental impacts.

Real-World Example: Laparoscopic StaplerUsing a laparoscopic stapler as a case study, Tamara walks through the taxonomy’s steps: Refuse (questioning the need for the device), Rethink (designing multifunctional devices), Reduce (minimizing material use), and Reuse/Recycle (extending product life through maintenance, repair, or reprocessing).

Barriers to Circularity in HealthcarePerceived vs. Actual Safety: The tendency to prioritize perceived safety over evidence-based sustainability, leading to overuse of single-use devices and excessive waste.
Logistical Challenges: The complexity of sorting and collecting devices, especially in hospitals with limited space and resources.
Regulatory Hurdles: Differences in regulations between the EU and the US, such as the reprocessing of single-use devices.

Innovations and Hope for the FutureTamara shares her work on a patient-friendly alternative to the traditional vaginal speculum, designed to reduce pain and improve accessibility. She also discusses her optimism about collaborations among medical device manufacturers to drive systemic change.

Notable Quotes
"The number one barrier is the difference between actual safety and perceived safety. People want to do well in healthcare, but this can lead to unintended environmental consequences."
"We need to ask: Do we really need this device? Can we refuse, rethink, or reduce before we even start producing?"
"Sterilization is not always necessary - sometimes high-level disinfection is enough, and that can significantly reduce environmental impact."
Resources Mentioned
Visual Taxonomy of Circular Healthcare Flows (CHF): View the Visual
Call to Action
Share your thoughts: What circular economy strategies have you seen in healthcare? Connect with Frederik on LinkedIn to share your insights.

Subscribe and Share: Help spread the word about sustainable healthcare by subscribing to the podcast and sharing this episode with your network.
Host: Frederik Dam van Deurs Guest: Tamara, PhD Candidate, TU Delft

Join Joachim and guest Arne Kloke, Head of Service & Sustainability Management at SCHOTT Pharma and President of Alliance to Zero
.
They explore practical examples of using recycled materials in pharma inclduing a case with Takeda and Pfizer and the real barriers to circularity, and what the new EU Circular Economy Act could mean for the industry.
You’ll hear concrete insights on device design, waste streams, collaboration models, and how the next wave of sustainable packaging is being built.

Timestamps:
00:00 – Introduction to quality management in pharma
01:12 – Welcome to the Sustainable Healthcare Podcast
01:21 – Meet Arne Clark: sustainability journey
01:40 – Challenges and innovations in pharma sustainability
02:54 – Personal insights and hobbies
03:45 – Hope and collaboration in sustainability
05:30 – Why sustainable practices matter
06:30 – SCHOTT Pharma’s role in sustainability
09:45 – Recycling and circular economy in pharma
14:03 – Scaling sustainable solutions
21:09 – Challenges in waste management and recycling
30:29 – Alliance to Zero and the EU Circular Economy Act
36:29 – Conclusion and call to action

Developmental prosopagnosia – also known as face blindness – affects an estimated 1–3% of the population, yet most people have never heard of it.

In this special episode of the Sustainable Healthcare Podcast, Frederik steps into the role of patient and speaks with psychologist and researcher Erling Nørkær about his own recent condition discovery and what it means to live in a world where faces don’t reliably “stick.”

Together, Frederik and Erling unpack:
What developmental prosopagnosia is – and how it differs from simply being “bad with names”

How face recognition normally works in the brain, and what seems to go wrong in prosopagnosia

The social and emotional consequences: fear of seeming rude, anxiety in crowds, and why modern life makes the condition harder to live with

Practical coping strategies and how people learn to rely on clothing, context, voice, and other cues instead of faces

Why prosopagnosia is not yet a formal diagnosis, and what that means for patients

Current research efforts, including studies of infants of parents with prosopagnosia, and what this might reveal about early development and future interventions
It’s a deeply personal conversation about neurodivergence, identity, and how better language and awareness can make everyday life less stressful for people with face blindness – in schools, workplaces, and healthcare.

About our guest
Erling Nørkær is a psychologist, PhD, and researcher at the Department of Psychology, University of Copenhagen, specializing in developmental prosopagnosia – the reduced or absent ability to recognize faces.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erling-n%C3%B8rk%C3%A6r-0558a11b8/

Copenhagen Neuropsychology Lab (CopNL): https://psychology.ku.dk/research/research_groups/copnl/

Research profile: https://researchprofiles.ku.dk/en/persons/erling-n%C3%B8rk%C3%A6r/