The Data Chief

• When Navan Chose to Build, Not Buy: The AI Decision That Changed Everything

  In this episode of The Data Chief, Ilan Twig, co-founder and CTO of Navan, shares why large language models will revolutionize our relationship with technology—just like the mouse did for the keyboard. From pushing AI to its limits to launching Navan Cognition, built for zero critical hallucination, Ilan reveals what it really takes to lead through change and build AI that people can trust. He also dives into a critical question every company must face: Will you build AI from scratch, or build with AI partners?? And if you're curious about the next frontier, Ilan paints a bold vision of agent-to-agent communication—where AI services talk to each other and your admin work disappears into the background.  A must-listen for anyone building the future of AI-powered user experiences.Key Moments:Agent-to-Agent Communication (A2A) (17:00): Ilan envisions a future where dedicated AI services communicate with each other in natural language, without the need for an API. This "mother of all bots" would manage administrative tasks by talking to other bots, simplifying complex tasks for the user.AI as a "Human" Experience (27:16): Ilan was surprised by the release of ChatGPT in 2022 because it was the first time a technology felt human. This led him to spend four months building and testing the technology's boundaries, including its ability to lie or be "jailbroken" with creative prompts.Identifying the Core Business (31:43): Ilan advises companies to decide if they want to become an "AI company" or simply use AI. He explains that building a core AI platform requires a huge commitment.A Case Study in Building (35:32): The conversation furthers, as a light is shed on the building of “Navan Cognition”, because no solution existed at the time to prevent critical hallucinations in AI models. This system includes a supervisor agent that works to catch and correct undesirable responses, creating a "zero critical hallucination" experience for its users.Key Quotes:"LLMs would do to the mouse what the mouse did to the keyboard when it comes to how humans interact with computers."  - Ilan Twig“My role is to always apply the best technology in order to drive, to create the best product and best experience. That's my role. And it is not technology for the sake of technology. It is technology for the sake of creating value for the users." - Ilan Twig“We ended up using ThoughtSpot. We also applied the generative AI capabilities that you guys have built into your product. That's build versus buy. That's the benefit of buy.”  - Ilan TwigMentionsNavan Introduces World’s Smartest T&E Personal AssistantNavan CognitionAI jailbreak method tricks LLMs into poisoning their own contextSurely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! (Adventures of a Curious Character)  - Richard P. FeynmanGuest Bio Ilan Twig is the co-founder and Chief Technology Officer (CTO) of Navan, the leading modern travel and expense management platform, globally. As CTO, Ilan drives Navan’s product development and engineering efforts, leveraging cutting-edge technologies — including AI — to enhance user experience and operational efficiency. This is Ilan’s second successful venture with Navan CEO Ariel Cohen, following their previous company, StreamOnce, a business multimedia integration platform acquired by Jive Software. With nearly two decades of engineering experience, Ilan has a proven track record of leading innovative research and development teams. He previously held key roles at Hewlett-Packard and Rockmelt, where he managed large-scale engineering initiatives. Ilan holds a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from the Academic College of Tel-Aviv, Yaffo. As a forward-thinking technologist, Ilan is passionate about integrating AI-driven solutions to redefine the future of corporate travel and expense management. Hear more from Cindi Howson here. Sponsored by ThoughtSpot.

  --------  

  48:16

  --------

  48:16
• Canva’s Moe Kiss on Why Creativity Is the Missing Ingredient in Data

  Join us for a masterclass in building data-driven marketing cultures. Moe Kiss, Director of Data Science in Marketing at Canva, shares how she bridges analytics and storytelling to make data approachable across teams. She breaks down the shift from attribution to experimentation, why storytelling is a must-have skill for every data professional, and how to balance intuition with evidence. Discover how Moe’s redefining the balance between technology, trust, and empathy in data leadership.Key Moments:Data as “Part of the Meal” (09:09): Using a cooking analogy, Moe describes how data should be integrated into decision-making, not as a garnish or afterthought, but as part of the meal itself. She highlights Canva’s culture of balancing intuition with data, ensuring both creative instinct and analytics inform every decision.Storytelling as a Data Superpower (10:57): Moe breaks down her “insight headline” method, turning flat dashboards into stories that drive action. She argues that data storytelling isn’t about aesthetics but understanding, and that trust comes from how clearly insights connect to business impact.Technical Fluency in the Age of AI (18:16): While some leaders claim programming is obsolete, Moe insists it’s more important than ever. Understanding what’s under the hood helps data professionals vet AI outputs, maintain data quality, and confidently guide stakeholders through rapid technological change.Buy vs. Build: The Cost–Benefit Equation (20:11): Moe breaks down how Canva evaluates when to build internal tools versus buy off-the-shelf solutions. She stresses that the best answer depends on scalability, cost, and time to market — and that implementation costs are often underestimated.AI’s New Role in Marketing (24:48): Moe shares how AI is reshaping marketing teams and their relationship with data. She highlights how generative AI tools can democratize access to insights, but warns that without trusted, high-quality data foundations, AI can just as easily amplify mistakes.Key Quotes:"Data is about creativity…It’s not about it being pretty, it’s about being understood.” - Moe Kiss“ We are leveraging AI tools more, and so understanding what's under the hood, I would say, is more essential than ever.” - Moe Kiss“[Know] the business appetite. You need to know how to get the answer with the right level of certainty or uncertainty…at pace with the business.” - Moe KissMentionsAnalytics Power Hour PodcastWhy Are Semantic Layers Suddenly Sexy?The Agentic Semantic Layer and OSI: A New Standard for AIThoughtSpot Joins Forces with Snowflake and Industry Leaders to Spearhead Open Semantic Interchange, Ushering in a New Era of Data and AI InteroperabilityGuest Bio Moe is a Director of Data Science in Marketing at Canva. Prior to that, she was in senior product and marketing analytics roles at THE ICONIC and in an attribution agency, Datalicious. Moe is passionate about growing and developing data scientists, driving industry leading measurement techniques and tooling and expanding the business impact of her team.She is a passionate and active member of the analytics community, co-hosting a bi-weekly podcast, the Analytics Power Hour. She served as the president of the Analytics Association of New South Wales for 7 years and is an ongoing committee member where she helps run Data Analytics Wednesday, a monthly meet up, and Sydney MeasureCamp, yearly unconference. She won the Digital Analytics Association USA's top new practitioner award in 2018. In 2024 was nominated in the Women Leading Tech Awards in the Data Science category and was awarded Snowflake's Data Hero of the Year award. Hear more from Cindi Howson here. Sponsored by ThoughtSpot.

  --------  

  40:17

  --------

  40:17
• 3 Must-Read Data and AI Books for 2025 with Geoff Woods, Wendy Batchelder, and Malcolm Hawker

  Welcome to a special author's episode of The Data Chief, where we delve into the minds of three influential authors who are shaping the conversation around data and AI. First, Geoff Woods, author of The AI-Driven Leader, shares his philosophy of prioritizing strategy over technology to make faster, smarter decisions. Next, Wendy Batchelder, author of The Data Governance Handbook, discusses how to transform governance from a rigid bureaucracy into a business accelerator by focusing on business outcomes. Finally, Malcolm Hawker, author of The Data Hero Playbook, challenges data leaders to adopt a heroic mindset by becoming customer-driven and aligning their incentives with business success. Join us to learn how to lead effectively in the AI era by building a strategy-driven, governed, and customer-centric data function.The Data Chief Podcast: Author Episode Key MomentsGeoff Woods: The AI-Driven LeaderFrom "IT Problem" to Strategic Partner (06:20): Woods advocates for viewing AI as a "strategic thought partner" rather than an assistant or replacement, and emphasizes that AI strategy must align with business strategy.The CRIT Framework for Smarter Prompts (12:25): He introduces the CRIT framework for prompt engineering: Context, Role, Interview, Task. This method helps leaders get non-obvious, high-impact strategies from AI by having the AI ask the right questions.Beyond the Bottom Line: AI's Human Impact (22:17): Woods discusses the ROI of AI, including a case where AI identified savings equivalent to 2% of a company's revenue. Wendy Batchelder: The Data Governance HandbookData Governance as an Accelerator (32:33): Wendy Batchelder addresses the myth that data governance is a "dirty word" or a code for "no," arguing that its true purpose is to be an accelerator.Speaking the Language of Business (35:17): Batchelder emphasizes that data governance should be embedded from the start of a project, not as an afterthought. She provides an example of "bad" vs. "good" communication, urging data professionals to speak the language of the business.Measuring Value with Business Outcomes (40:00): She outlines how to measure the value of data governance by connecting it to business outcomes like increased revenue or improved customer service. Malcolm Hawker: The Data Hero PlaybookFrom Limiting Mindset to Growth Mindset (56:00): Hawker discusses why he wrote the book, calling the current moment a "do or die" opportunity for CDOs. He challenges the "limiting mindset" that leads to defeatism.Customer-Driven, Not Data-Driven (1:08:00): He urges data leaders to be "customer-driven, not data-driven," emphasizing the need for data teams to become more business literate.The Power of Product Management (1:14:00): Hawker advocates for bringing product management disciplines into data teams. This approach focuses on putting the customer at the center and ensures that data products are economically viable and tied to ROI.Key Quotes:"It is not technology first, strategy second. It is strategy first, technology second.” - Geoff Woods"The companies that are treating data as something that helps drive business outcomes are thinking about data at the beginning and set up at the end." - Wendy Batchelder“If you deliver value to your customers, if you are the lever of change and transformation in your organization, if you show value from data, you will get a seat at the table." - Malcolm HawkerMentionsThe AI-Driven Leader: Harnessing AI to Make Faster, SmarterHow AI is transforming strategy developmentData Governance Handbook: A practical approach to building trust in data5 key reasons why data analytics is important to businessThe Data Hero Playbook: Developing Your Data Leadership SuperpowersCDOs and CDAOs: Rethink your role or fade awayGuest Bios:About Geoff Woods Geoff Woods is the #1 bestselling author of The AI-Driven Leader, host of the AI-Driven Leader podcast, and Founder of AI Leadership and The AI-Driven Leadership Collective™, a highly vetted network of executives collaborating to harness AI to build better businesses and better lives. As the former Chief Growth Officer of Jindal Steel & Power, Geoff's strategic leadership helped the company grow its market cap from $750 million to over $12 billion in just four years. Prior to that, he co-founded the training and consulting company behind The ONE Thing, advising businesses ranging from $10 million to $60 billion in annual revenue.About Wendy Batchelder Wendy Batchelder is a three-time Chief Data Officer across financial services, technology & healthcare industries, with a wide understanding of how to take highly technical aspects of data management and translate them into simple, concise business valued solutions that are practical and simple to understand. Her background has led her to lead global data & analytics organizations at four Fortune 500 companies. She approaches situations with curiosity and humility, which has led to applying innovative data solutions to challenges with increased complexity to deliver value that companies can measure.A lifelong learner, Wendy graduated from Miami University with a B.S. in Accounting and Information Systems, from Drake University with a Masters of Accountancy, from University of Iowa with an Executive MBA, and pursues ongoing education through Harvard Business School. Her work history includes EY, KPMG, Aviva, Wells Fargo, VMware and Salesforce.About Malcolm HawkerMalcolm helps senior business leaders harness the power of data to transform their businesses. As a former Gartner analyst, he has consulted with some of the world's largest and best-known brands on their enterprise information management strategies and digital transformation initiatives.He is a frequent public speaker on data and analytics best practices with a passion for Master Data Management (MDM) and Data Governance. He welcomes the opportunity to share practical and actionable insights on how companies can become truly data-driven by implementing the cultural, technical, and organizational changes needed for success in the digital age. He is also the author of The Data Hero Playbook. Hear more from Cindi Howson here. Sponsored by ThoughtSpot.

  --------  

  1:21:27

  --------

  1:21:27
• Why CDO of WEX Puts People Before Technology in the Age of AI

  Join us for a compelling conversation on leading through change with Karen Stroup, Chief Digital Officer at WEX. In this episode of The Data Chief, Karen shares her insights on navigating the complexities of AI adoption. She discusses why focusing on the customer problem is more important than simply applying new technology, how to build trust by accounting for the "human side" of data, and why her team uses a "two-way door decision" to combat the rapid pace of tech change. Discover her "hot take" on the future of analytics, where dashboards become a "backdrop" and an interactive, predictive experience takes center stage.Key Moments:Navigating Ambiguity with People (06:02): Karen argues that leaders' primary role is to build confidence and help people navigate ambiguity. She explains that people fear the unknown more than change and suggests involving employees in the journey to help alleviate that fear.Trust and the Human Side of Data (14:30): She highlights that giving a correct answer is not the same as building confidence that it's the right answer. Karen discusses the importance of accounting for the "human side" of how people feel about the information they receive.Prioritizing AI use cases (22:48). Karen describes WEX's approach, which starts with a top-down cultural shift from the CEO, and then uses filters like value, feasibility, and desirability to prioritize projects.The "Two-Way Door Decision" for Technology (28:13): To combat the disconnect between rapid technology evolution and slow cultural change, Karen discusses using a "two-way door decision". This approach involves architecting solutions to be vendor-agnostic, allowing the company to pivot if a technology proves to be unsuccessful."Hot Take" on the Future of Analytics (35:34): Karen's "hot take" is that the user experience will fundamentally change. She predicts that dashboards will become a "backdrop," while an interactive, predictive experience will move to the foreground.Key Quotes:"Very few customers, whether it be a business or a consumer, say, I want an AI solution. What they're really saying is, I want the problem to be simpler." - Karen Stroup"Answering the question correctly is not the same as building confidence that it's the right answer to the question." - Karen Stroup"Being able to understand data, but in a way that resonates with them, is really important. I do think ThoughtSpot does this well in the sense that you may get one answer, and you say, 'Hey, can you explain that for me?' or 'Where does the data come from?' But that ability to 'peel the onion' is really important." - Karen StroupMentions:WEX's Health and Benefits platformAgentic AI in Financial Services: The future of autonomous finance solutionsTrillion Dollar Coach: The Leadership Playbook of Silicon Valley's Bill CampbellHow Much Data Does a Ring Security Camera Use?Guest Bio: Karen joined WEX in 2022 as Chief Digital Officer, a newly created role. She brings more than 15 years of experience leading product management, digital, and innovation organizations focused on software as a service offerings, primarily in financial services.As Chief Digital Officer, Karen is responsible for expanding digital commerce opportunities by harnessing best-in-class product development, design, and digital transformation capabilities from across the enterprise. In addition to creating a unified strategic vision, she leads a team that executes against digital strategy initiatives and strives to create exceptional customer experiences by delivering new digital tools, platforms, and technologies.Prior to WEX, Karen served as the Chief Digital Officer at Thomson Reuters. Prior to her role at Thomson Reuters, Karen served as SVP, Product and Innovation at Capital One Financial Services and VP, Product Management at Intuit. Hear more from Cindi Howson here. Sponsored by ThoughtSpot.

  --------  

  43:21

  --------

  43:21
• Unlocking the Autonomous Enterprise, with ThoughtSpot CEO

  The next generation of analytics is here. In this episode of The Data Chief, ThoughtSpot CEO Ketan Karkhanis explains why AI is the new BI, and the future of analytics is autonomous. Karkhanis shares his vision for the autonomous enterprise, where AI agents act on insights and automate workflows.  He also explains why a culture of trust and experimentation is crucial for unlocking AI's full potential. Don't miss this discussion on how to fundamentally rethink how organizations interact with data to drive better business outcomes and build an autonomous enterprise.Key Moments:AI is the New BI (08:35): Ketan explains that AI represents a “foundational rewiring” of the entire technology stack, a shift he calls Cloud 2.0. He predicts the BI market is on the verge of an “upgrade super cycle,” leaving legacy players behind.AI Becomes the Only UI (20:45): Ketan shares his vision that in the future, AI will become "the only UI you will need". He explains that ThoughtSpot’s MCP host can bring together structured data, unstructured data, and world knowledge to provide better context for a user's question.Progress over Perfection (25:56): Leaders are reminded not to let “perfection be the enemy of progress.” For Ketan, a culture of trust and openness to experimentation is more important than having perfectly defined KPIs or flawless dashboards.Training Comes First (29:02): One of the biggest lessons learned was the importance of investing in people before chasing the promise of AI outcomes.  After rolling out mandatory generative AI training, new use cases began emerging organically from across the business—proof that education fuels innovation.Outcomes Over Tech (38:47): Despite mountains of legacy technology, many organizations remain starved for actionable insights. Ketan points to EasyJet as an example of getting it right: rather than focusing on systems and infrastructure, they designed their AI initiative around a tangible outcome—avoiding flight cancellations.The Rise of the Autonomous Enterprise (42:56): The next frontier is the autonomous enterprise, where AI agents don’t just surface insights but also act on them. Ketan envisions a future where humans are freed from mundane tasks to focus on higher-value work like relationships and judgment calls.Key Quotes:"AI becomes the only UI you will need." - Ketan Karkhanis"It's not about AI. It's about ROI." - Ketan Karkhanis"This is no longer just about BI. This is about agents that are driving workflows in your organizations." - Ketan KarkhanisMentions:Go Boundaryless Product SpotlightThoughtSpot Agentic MCP Server Lex Fridman PodcastTeam of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham LincolnThe Path Between the Seas: The Creation of the Panama CanalGuest Bio: Ketan Karkhanis is the CEO of ThoughtSpot. Prior to joining the company in September 2024, Ketan was the Executive Vice President and General Manager of Sales Cloud at Salesforce. He returned to Salesforce in March 2022 after his time as the COO of Turvo, an emerging supply-chain collaboration platform. Before that, Ketan spent nearly a decade at Salesforce, where he led product areas in Sales, Service Cloud, Lightning Platform, and finally Analytics, wherein as the Senior Vice President & GM of Einstein Analytics, he pioneered incredible innovation, customer success, and business acceleration from launch to over $300M and a 30,000 strong user community. Prior to Salesforce, Ketan was at Cisco Systems where he led various technology initiatives and initiatives spanning Customer Advocacy, Cisco Certifications & eLearning. Hear more from Cindi Howson here. Sponsored by ThoughtSpot.

  --------  

  45:41

  --------

  45:41

Plus de podcasts Business

Podcasts tendance de Business

À propos de The Data Chief

The Data Chief: Podcasts du groupe