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In the face of devastating state violence, the people of Iran continue to find new ways to resist. From a female marathon runner pacing her cell in prison, to an underground concert staged in defiance of the law, the fight for a free Iran is fought daily with bodies, art and solidarity.
In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu speaks with journalist Fatemeh Jamalpour about her book, For the Sun After Long Nights, which she wrote with fellow journalist Nilo Tabrizy. In September 2022, the world learned of the murder of a young Kurdish woman in Iran, Mahsa Jina Amini. Her death, while a captive of the Iranian state, sparked the Woman, Life, Freedom protests. Fatemeh and Nilo’s book frames those protests in the deep tradition of Iranian women leading political movements for rights and freedom, that date back at least a century. They also provide incredibly detailed and moving accounts of the everyday lives of people in Iran who are part of a collective movement under the most oppressive and violent conditions imaginable. Fatemeh talks about the significance of the many ethnic minorities in Iran, the unique role of Gen Z in the protests, and the many ways that women’s bodies have become a powerful weapon in the fight for collective freedom, in places as diverse as prisons and illegal music concerts. Clearing up myths and lies about Iran and the resistance, this is an especially important episode of Speaking Out of Place.
(0:00) A Century of Resistance Fatemeh discusses the deep historical roots of the Iranian women's movement
(2:58) Becoming a voice for suppressed women
(4:15) Sisterhood and Co-Authorship Meeting Niloufar Tabrizi and collaborating across borders
(7:15) Interrogations and Writing Documenting state interrogation as an act of defiance and survival
(12:45) The Diversity of Iran Highlighting the vital roles of Kurdish, Turkish, Arab, and Baluchi minorities in the struggle
(16:15) Personal Freedom vs. Collective Liberation Why returning to a "broken country" was an act of profound love and solidarity
(21:15) Gen Z Gamers in the Streets How young Iranians are using online strategy to fight security forces
(26:15) Turning Grief into Resistance
(29:15) Correcting Western Media Myths
(31:15) The Body as a Weapon Women reclaiming their agency through public presence without a hijab
(32:20) The Imaginary Concert The story of an illicit, breathtaking public performance in Iran
(35:15) The Future of Iranian Journalism
Episode Website
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
@speaking_out_of_place

“We're looking at a lot of bad things in American history that we should have been thinking about over the past 50 years. What McCarthyism did, what it targeted with regard to the academic community—and that's really what I know the best—is that during the late 1940s and early 1950s, the focus of political oppression was on people who once were, had previously been near or were affiliated with the American Communist Party. It was focused on individuals who had once been in or near the Communist Party and who were refusing to cooperate with the witch hunt. That was it. That was what McCarthyism did. Today, what we're seeing is an attack on everything.”
In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu speaks with Ellen Schrecker, who has been referred to as “the dean of the anti-anti-Communist historians.” Well known for her classic studies of McCarthyism, today Schrecker explains how much worse Trump’s regime is than what we saw in the 1950s and 60s. A fierce defender of democracy, Ellen explains the central role education plays in creating a public culture and in maintaining democracy. Our conversation takes many paths, including an indictment of Capitalism, of the dominance of economistic thinking and values, of the ways university leaders are bending a knee to Trump. We talk about the value of the humanities, the importance of autonomous forms of education and mutual support such as we saw in the pro-Palestinian encampments, and one of the most remarkable differences between the days of McCarthyism—the phenomenon of mass protests like #NoKingsDay.
(0:00) The Prequel To The Civil War The threats to education today compared to the 1950s
(7:20) Democracy And Education
(13:40) Capitalism And Anti-Science How corporate interests fund the suppression of climate science and universities
(23:20) The Capitulation Of Leaders Why modern university administrators are giving in to authoritarian blackmail
(33:40) The Loss Of Cultural Capital The targeted elimination of the humanities and the arts in higher education
(39:20) Unprecedented Resistance Finding hope in modern student politicization and mass protests
Episode Website
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
Instagram @speaking_out_of_place

"I am a poet without language and an empath without root. I am overflowing in something I do not recognize... something like terror, but still not quite that."
In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with poet, activist, and scholar Jamaica Osorio. Shortly after October 7, 2023, she began to write a series of astonishing poems about the war in Gaza and the genocide. Osorio graces us with readings of some of those poems, and engages in a rich, complex, and deeply moving discussion of what went into their composition. Throughout, we talk about the power of poetry to suspend time and allow us the space to contemplate the impossible. We talk about the nature of not knowing, of the inexpressible, and the ways certain poems can give us the strength, energy, and commitment to persist in working for the liberation of all peoples, even when dwelling in grief.
Dr. Jamaica Heolimeleikalani Osorio is an Associate Professor of Indigenous and Native Hawaiian Politics at the University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa. Her award-winning poetry and activism were the subject of the Sundance Film Festival documentary This is the Way we Rise, and she is the author of Remembering our Intimacies: Moʻolelo, Aloha ʻĀina, and Ea, published by The University of Minnesota Press. She believes in the power of aloha ʻāina and collective action to pursue liberatory, abolitionist futures.
(0:00) Intro
(2:00) The Silence After October 7, Jamaica Osorio discusses the struggle to find language and the pressure to speak out
(5:00) The Sounds of Empire in Hawaiʻi Connecting the military helicopters over Pālolo Valley to the skies of Gaza
(7:00) Reading "For Palestine"
(13:00) Lingering in the Inexpressible Why poetry must offer questions and suspensions rather than simple answers
(18:00) Taking Risks and Earning Trust The vulnerability of sharing deeply personal, grief-stricken art with the public
(24:30) Reading: "It's Time to Dance" A beautiful meditation on holding the joy of a child alongside the terror of a genocide
(29:00) Children as Ancestors and Teachers How Osorio’s daughter teaches her to be fully present in both grief and joy
(37:00) Reading: "Rafah Burns" A raw poem about parenthood, weeping with a newborn, and the global resonance of loss
(42:00) Finding Connection in the Dark The shared emotional vocabulary of crying when the world becomes incomprehensible
(44:00) ʻOnipaʻa: To Be Steadfast
(46:00) The Ungovernable Belief in a Better World Why the organizers and poets will outlast the empires that try to dominate them
Episode Website
www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
Insta @speaking_out_of_place

Two weeks away from filming her most ambitious film to date, Cherien Dabis and her crew were forced to evacuate Palestine as the devastating events of October 2023 began. Instead of abandoning the project, they adapted, filming across Cyprus, Jordan, and Greece, creating a cinematic love letter to the resilience, joy, and humanity of the Palestinian people.
My guest today is Cherien Dabis. She’s a filmmaker and actress who has spent much of her career trying to fill the silences in the American narrative. In 2022, she became the first Palestinian to receive an Emmy nomination. She has worked on everything from The L Word to Ozark, Only Murders in the Building to the hit Netflix series Mo, always with an eye toward breaking the one-dimensional mold that has historically defined Arab representation in the West. But her latest project is perhaps her most ambitious yet. It’s a film called All That’s Left of You. It follows one Palestinian family across three generations, beginning in 1948 and ending in 2022. It is a story of exile and memory, and it’s Jordan’s official submission for this year’s Academy Awards.
(0:00) The Inheritance of Trauma Cherien Dabis discusses how collective trauma is passed down and the importance of showing Palestinian resilience and humanity
(1:50) Inherited Trauma: Identity And History The passage of trauma requires a multi-generational lens to truly understand how history and political events shape people
(2:37) The Bakri Acting Dynasty: Collaborative Lineage Collaborating with four generations of the Bakri Family brought immense authenticity to the screen
(4:02) Filming The Nakba: Art Imitating Crisis Evacuating Palestine weeks before shooting forced the crew to adapt amidst devastating, ongoing events
(7:09) The Moment Of Activation: Racism In Ohio Experiencing severe racism during the first Gulf War ignited a lifelong drive to challenge dangerous media stereotypes
(9:34) Psychological Violence: Impact Of Humiliation The film explores how non-physical harassment and humiliation leave devastating, long-term relational scars
(10:48) Broken Distribution: Industry Gatekeepers Navigating systemic fear and gatekeeping in Hollywood distribution remains a profound challenge for Palestinian cinema
(11:37) Previous Films, Television And Craft Directing television hones the craft and expands the creative capacity needed for ambitious feature films
(12:28) Truth Seekers: The Next Generation Hope lies with young people who refuse to accept the broken systems and hidden truths of previous generations
Episode Website
www.creativeprocess.info/pod
Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

“These oppressive structures are built to strip us of our humanity. One of the ways they do that is by filling us with anger and hatred. If we allow ourselves to stay there, we're doing the job of the oppressor for them by slowly killing ourselves. I wanted to make a movie that would remind people that we can't allow them to win by giving up our humanity. We have to hold onto our humanity and try in these impossible circumstances.”
My guest today is Cherien Dabis. She’s a filmmaker and actress who has spent much of her career trying to fill the silences in the American narrative. In 2022, she became the first Palestinian to receive an Emmy nomination. She has worked on everything from The L Word to Ozark, Only Murders in the Building to the hit Netflix series Mo, always with an eye toward breaking the one-dimensional mold that has historically defined Arab representation in the West. But her latest project is perhaps her most ambitious yet. It’s a film called All That’s Left of You. It follows one Palestinian family across three generations, beginning in 1948 and ending in 2022. It is a story of exile and memory, and it’s Jordan’s official submission for this year’s Academy Awards.
(0:00) The Inheritance of Trauma
Cherien Dabis discusses showing the multifaceted humanity of Palestinians beyond just pain and suffering
(3:41) Inherited Trauma: Identity And History The film explores how collective trauma is passed down across generations and shapes individual identities
(5:52) The Bakri Dynasty: Collaborative Lineage Working with the legendary Bakri Family brought deep, authentic relational dynamics to the screen
(9:25) Filming The Nakba: Art Imitating Crisis The crew faced severe challenges and had to evacuate Palestine during the October 2023 escalation
(16:10) Representation Gap: Dehumanization In Media Growing up in Ohio, Cherien Dabis witnessed the dangerous misrepresentation of Arabs in Western media
(21:24) The Moment Of Activation: Racism In Ohio The stark racism experienced during the first Gulf War ignited her passion to become a filmmaker
(33:40) Psychological Violence: Impact Of Humiliation The film depicts how psychological harassment under occupation leaves devastating, long-term impacts on families
(38:23) Broken Distribution: Industry Gatekeepers Despite international success, systemic fear and gatekeeping in the US distribution market remain significant obstacles
(45:28) Previous Films, Television And Craft Directing television shows like Only Murders in the Building expanded her creative capacity and adaptability
(51:45) Truth Seekers: The Next Generation Cherien Dabis shares her profound hope for young people who refuse to accept the broken systems of the past
Episode Website
www.creativeprocess.info/pod
Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast