Watching Two Detectives

Following the five-part crossover between Watching Two Detectives and Stop the Killing, we are sharing another standout conversation from the Stop the Killing archive.

On April 20, 1999, two students arrived at Columbine High School intending to bomb the school. When their bombs failed, they opened fire.

At the time, 12 students and one teacher were killed. In February 2025, Columbine survivor Anne Marie Hochhalter died from complications linked to the gunshot wounds she sustained during the attack. Her death was later ruled a homicide, bringing the recognised death toll to 13 students and one teacher — 14 victims in total.

In this episode, Sarah Ferris and Katherine Schweit speak with Frank DeAngelis, the former principal of Columbine High School.

Frank takes us back inside the school on the day of the attack and shares what it was like to lead a community through unimaginable violence, grief and trauma.

But this conversation is about far more than the events of April 20.

Frank explains how the impact of a school shooting continues long after the emergency vehicles, investigators and television cameras leave. The psychological wounds spread through students, teachers, families, first responders and the wider community — and for many, those wounds last a lifetime.

He also reflects on the responsibility he felt toward the Columbine community, the promises he made to the families and why his role did not simply end when he retired as principal.

This is a conversation about leadership, survivor guilt, recovery, school safety and the human consequences that cannot be measured by casualty numbers alone.

It is also a reminder that behind every statistic is a person, a family and a life forever altered.

Let’s Be FrankFrank discusses school security, hardening targets and why safety measures can go too far when they begin to change schools from welcoming places into fortresses:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489?i=1000669832290

This bonus episode includes excerpts from a longer conversation with Frank that were not included in the original episode.

Please follow Stop the Killing wherever you listen to podcasts for more conversations with Frank DeAngelis and more than 200 episodes examining mass shootings, school safety, active-shooter response, prevention, survival and the people left carrying the consequences.

And stay following Watching Two Detectives for Season Six:

Biddy: I’m So Shiny, I Can Twinkle Like a Star.

The story of ten-year-old Bridget “Biddy” Porter, the warning signs before her murder and the family fighting to give their daughter back the name, story and voice that were taken from her.

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And for all things Katherine Schweit including where you can purchase her book STOP THE KILLING: How to end the mass shooting crisis head to: www.katherineschweit.com

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CONNING THE CON

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Klooghless: The Long Con 

Watching Two Detectives 

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Following our five-part crossover between Watching Two Detectives and Stop the Killing, we’re sharing a specially selected episode from the Stop the Killing archive.

On May 24, 2022, a gunman entered Robb Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, killing 19 children and two teachers and injuring 17 others.

This episode was recorded just two days after the Uvalde school shooting, while information was still emerging and before the full, deeply troubling picture of the police response became known.

Sarah Ferris is joined by Katherine Schweit, former head of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program, to examine what was understood in those first 48 hours.

They discuss the gunman’s movements before the attack, his social-media activity, warning behaviours, access to firearms, the early questions surrounding school security and the initial reports of a lengthy delay before officers entered the classroom.

Katherine also challenges some of the misinformation and conspiracy theories that appeared almost immediately after the shooting and explains how to identify reliable information during a rapidly unfolding investigation.

The conversation explores why blaming mass shootings solely on mental illness is both misleading and unsupported by research, the difference between mental illness and urgent emotional distress, and the importance of recognising concerning behaviour before violence occurs.

Because this episode captures the immediate aftermath, some early information discussed was later corrected or clarified. As official investigations progressed, Stop the Killing returned to Uvalde several times to examine the police response, command failures, active-shooter protocols and the legal questions surrounding accountability.

Uvalde, Texas — Robb Elementary School MassacreThe original episode recorded immediately after the shooting:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489?i=1000564101644

Bonus 4: Uvalde UpdateKatherine examines the emerging timeline, the delay in confronting the shooter and the question of who was in command:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489?i=1000567936043

The Uvalde Shooting — A Comprehensive AnalysisA detailed reconstruction based on the US Department of Justice Critical Incident Review, including the 77-minute delay and systemic failures in leadership, communication and command:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489?i=1000746309846

Uvalde Trial Verdict: What the Decision Really MeansKatherine explains the legal outcome, what the verdict established and why criminal, civil and command accountability are not the same:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489?i=1000746304659

This episode is being shared on the Watching Two Detectives feed to give listeners a taste of the more than 200 episodes available from Stop the Killing.

Please follow Stop the Killing wherever you listen to podcasts for more expert-led conversations about mass shootings, active-shooter response, prevention, survival and the human impact left behind.

Next week on Watching Two Detectives, we’ll share a powerful conversation with Frank DeAngelis, former principal of Columbine High School, about April 20, 1999, the attack’s aftermath and the psychological scars carried by the Columbine community decades later.

Continue the Uvalde deep dive

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Message us on instagram : 

@conmunitypodcast

@stopthekillingstories

And for all things Katherine Schweit including where you can purchase her book STOP THE KILLING: How to end the mass shooting crisis head to: www.katherineschweit.com

RESOURCES

Stop the Bleed training

FBI 

RUN, HIDE, FIGHT

This is a CONmunity Podcast Production on the Killer Podcasts Network

Check out more:

CONNING THE CON

KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON

GUILTY GREENIE

THE BRAVERY ACADEMY

Klooghless: The Long Con 

Watching Two Detectives 

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In the fifth and final episode of this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former head of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program Katherine Schweit joins retired New South Wales detectives Scott Rogan and Peter Hogan one last time.

The conversation begins with the information we still do not know about the Bondi Beach mass shooting — and why pending court proceedings, privacy laws and suppression orders can limit what is released to the public.

Katherine, Scott and Peter examine the growing pressure for instant answers after major crimes, the spread of conspiracy theories and the new challenge facing investigators: artificial intelligence making it increasingly difficult to know whether video, images and evidence shared online are real.

They also reflect on the extraordinary courage shown during the attack. Bondi lifesavers ran towards danger with first-aid kits while shots were still being fired. Ordinary people protected strangers, carried the injured and made decisions in seconds that may have saved lives.

But what about those who freeze?

Katherine explains why fight, flight and freeze are all normal human responses — and why nobody can truly know how they will react until they are placed in that situation. Her advice is clear: your first responsibility is to survive and return home to the people who love you.

The episode then turns to the personal mission behind both podcasts.

Katherine reflects on leaving the FBI but never leaving the work behind, and on how Stop the Killing restored some of her faith in humanity by creating a community of listeners who want answers, solutions and practical ways to make their communities safer.

Scott and Peter explore the emotional toll of law enforcement, the coping mechanisms officers develop and why bringing humanity back into these conversations matters.

This final episode also considers how victims should be spoken about. Behind every statistic is a person, a family and a life permanently changed.

This is the final chapter of the five-part Stop the Killing x Watching Two Detectives crossover — a series about the Bondi Beach mass shooting, police response, misinformation, courage, survival and prevention.

Because this is more than true crime.

It is a mission.

Over the next few weeks, both podcast feeds will continue the crossover. Watching Two Detectives will feature selected episodes from the more than 200 episodes of Stop the Killing, while Stop the Killing will share the first two episodes of the award-winning first season of Watching Two Detectives.

Follow both podcasts to hear more powerful, victim-focused stories and expert conversations designed to inform, challenge and help keep people safer.

WANT THE VIDEOS HEAD TO YOUTUBE @sarahferrismedia 

And if you are wanting AD FREE | EARLY ACCESS | BONUS CONTENT 

HIT THE BANNER ON APPLE PODCASTS TO SUBSCRIBE

OR SUPPORT US: Patreon.com/stopthekilling 

Message us on instagram : 

@conmunitypodcast

@stopthekillingstories

And for all things Katherine Schweit including where you can purchase her book STOP THE KILLING: How to end the mass shooting crisis head to: www.katherineschweit.com

RESOURCES

Stop the Bleed training

FBI 

RUN, HIDE, FIGHT

This is a CONmunity Podcast Production on the Killer Podcasts Network

Check out more:

CONNING THE CON

KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON

GUILTY GREENIE

THE BRAVERY ACADEMY

Klooghless: The Long Con 

Watching Two Detectives 

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Part Four of this special crossover between Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives, former head of the FBI’s Active Shooter Program Katherine Schweit continues her conversation with retired New South Wales detectives Scott Rogan and Peter Hogan.

Together, they examine the police response to the Bondi Beach terror attack, the speed at which a mass shooting can unfold, and the impossible decisions officers must make in the first few minutes of an active-shooter incident.

The conversation explores the difference between directed terrorism, inspired terrorism and independently motivated attackers, as well as the danger of extremist propaganda and livestreamed violence inspiring future attacks.

Scott and Peter also address the misinformation that spread online in the immediate aftermath of Bondi. Images of wounded officers taking cover were used to accuse them of cowardice, while a photograph of a female officer directing civilians away from danger was falsely framed as surrender.

Katherine explains why social-media snapshots cannot show what an officer was seeing, what intelligence they had or what tactical decisions they were being forced to make.

The episode then turns to the extraordinary actions of Detective Senior Constable Cesar Barraza, the plain-clothes detective who confronted attackers armed with long guns from approximately 40 to 45 metres away.

Katherine, Scott and Peter break down the difficulty of making accurate handgun shots over that distance, under extreme pressure, with civilians and fellow officers still in danger.

This is not Hollywood. Real officers have limited ammunition. Real decisions are made in seconds. And real lives were saved.

This episode is Part Four of a five-part Stop the Killing x Watching Two Detectives crossover examining the Bondi Beach mass shooting, the police response, the human cost and the lessons that may help prevent future violence.

This is not about politics.

It is about facts, response and prevention.

Follow both Stop the Killing and Watching Two Detectives so you do not miss the final episode in the series.

WANT THE VIDEOS HEAD TO YOUTUBE @sarahferrismedia 

And if you are wanting AD FREE | EARLY ACCESS | BONUS CONTENT 

HIT THE BANNER ON APPLE PODCASTS TO SUBSCRIBE

OR SUPPORT US: Patreon.com/stopthekilling 

Message us on instagram : 

@conmunitypodcast

@stopthekillingstories

And for all things Katherine Schweit including where you can purchase her book STOP THE KILLING: How to end the mass shooting crisis head to: www.katherineschweit.com

RESOURCES

Stop the Bleed training

FBI 

RUN, HIDE, FIGHT

This is a CONmunity Podcast Production on the Killer Podcasts Network

Check out more:

CONNING THE CON

KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON

GUILTY GREENIE

THE BRAVERY ACADEMY

Klooghless: The Long Con 

Watching Two Detectives 
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In Part Three of this special Stop the Killing x Watching Two Detectives crossover, Katherine Schweit is joined by retired NSW detectives Scott Rogan and Peter Hogan to examine the Bondi Beach mass shooting.

This episode looks at the six-minute attack, the police response, the tactical realities of the scene, and the extraordinary bravery of civilians who intervened while others were still under fire.

This is not a political discussion about the Israel-Palestine conflict. It is a factual look at one specific mass shooting incident, the motives and climate around it, and the lessons that may help prevent future attacks.

Stop the Killing on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/stop-the-killing/id1585146489

Watching Two Detectives on Apple Podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/watching-two-detectives/id1740792484

Watching Two Detectives Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/wtd

Stop the Killing Patreon:https://www.patreon.com/stopthekilling

Listening on the Stop the Killing feed? Head over to Watching Two Detectives, subscribe and discover the four seasons waiting for you.

Listening on Watching Two Detectives? Search for Stop the Killing, subscribe and explore more than 300 episodes examining mass shootings, prevention, survival and the people working to create meaningful change.

Please follow both shows and leave a five-star review wherever you listen. Your support helps us continue producing these independent, expert-led conversations.

Join us next week for Part Three: the Bondi Beach killings through the expert lenses of Katherine Schweit, Peter Hogan and Scott Rogan.

This episode contains discussions of mass shootings, suicide, firearms, murder victims and human remains. Listener discretion is advised.

This is a Sarah Ferris Media on the Killer Podcasts Network

Check out more Sarah Ferris Media productions:

CONNING THE CON

KLOOGHLESS - THE LONG CON

GUILTY GREENIE

THE BRAVERY ACADEMY

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