Take 5

Lainey Wilson is a force of nature.
Raised in the tiny farming town of Baskin, Louisiana (population 170) she grew up between corn fields and country radio, where music wasn't a genre but a way of life. From writing her first song at nine years old to hauling a camper trailer to Nashville at 19, her path to becoming one of country music's biggest stars was anything but overnight. It took a decade of hustle, a Hannah Montana wig, and an unshakable belief that if she could just get one opportunity, she could do the rest.
Now she's selling out arenas across the world, winning back-to-back CMA Entertainer of the Year awards, starring in Yellowstone, and counting Dolly Parton as a friend who called her "sister." Through it all, her southern charm and small-town values remain her compass; ride horses, sit on the front porch with your dogs, and never forget who you are.
This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Lainey was warm, funny, and generous in sharing her extraordinary journey across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: staying grounded is a choice you make every day, and being yourself is the bravest thing you can do.
Lainey Wilson's song choices: 
Mel McDaniel - 'Louisiana Saturday Night'
Lee Ann Womack - 'I Hope You Dance'
CCR - 'Lookin' Out My Back Door'
Brothers Osborne - 'I'm Not For Everyone'
Tim McGraw - 'Humble and Kind'
00:00 Introduction: "If Dolly Parton Believes in Me, Then I'm Fine"
00:24 From Yellowstone to CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Cowgirl of the Night"
00:52 "If You Tell All Your Business, You Ain't Got None": Lainey's Daddy's Wisdom
01:06 Filming Take 5: Songs That Keep Her Grounded
01:26 Growing Up in Baskin: Music as a Lifeline to the Outside World
01:48 "I Wanna Make People Feel That Way": The Power of a Three-and-a-Half Minute Song
01:55 Where Did Your Passion Come From? Daddy's Guitar, Mama Singing in Church
02:22 "Country Wasn't a Genre, It Was a Way of Life"
02:44 First Song: Mel McDaniel, 'Louisiana Saturday Night'
03:06 Baskin, Louisiana: Population 170
03:30 "You're Either Helping Your Daddy in the Field or Sitting Around a Table Telling Stories"
03:47 Farming and Music: "A Storm Could Roll Through and Wipe It All Away"
04:17 Sowing Seeds With Faith: Farming as Metaphor for a Music Career
04:33 "My Brother Bill and My Other Brother Jack": Feeling Like They Were Singing Your Story
04:54 "Redneck People Say Things Kind of in a Backwards Way"
05:15 The Beauty of the Everyday: A One-Eyed Dog and a Single-Shot Rifle
05:33 The People of Baskin: "I Will Give You the Shirt Off My Back"
05:50 Moving to Nashville: Finding Your Village of People
06:11 A Louisiana Saturday Night: Drive-Through Daiquiris and Backyard Bonfires
06:55 "As Long as You Don't Poke the Straw Into the Cup"
07:18 "Dance in the Kitchen Till the Morning Light"
07:47 Did You Know You Had Talent? "I Knew I Needed to Believe It"
08:18 Writing Songs at a Sleepover and Singing A Cappella to Mama
08:35 Mama as Sounding Board: Songs in the Bathroom at 11 Years Old
08:52 "I Had to Believe It First, Then the People Around Me Started Believing"
09:24 Nine Years Old in Nashville: "This Feels Like Home"
09:42 "I Just Knew It": A Calling Discovered on the Interstate
10:04 Writing About Tequila and Cigarettes at Nine
10:18 Finding Her Own Voice: "The Songwriting World Was Getting Bigger"
10:37 "Every Song I Write, I'm Finding More of My Voice": 5,000 Songs and Counting
10:55 Songwriting as Therapy: "Let Me Dump This on You"
11:05 Learning About the World Through Other People's Shoes
11:26 First Performance: Kindergarten Graduation Dressed as a Butterfly
12:09 The Cherry Incident: "I Spit It Into My Granny's Hands"
12:27 "I Should've Known This Was Gonna Be a Shitshow"
12:43 The Hannah Montana Impersonator: Five Years of Birthday Parties
13:04 "This Is My Moment": Volunteering in Eighth Grade
13:29 "It Spread Like Wildfire": Touring Louisiana, Mississippi, Arkansas, Texas
13:49 Opening as Lainey Wilson Before Becoming Hannah Montana
14:06 "Ain't Nobody Else Gonna Go Get It for You"
14:23 Changing Behind Trees: "You Just Do What You Gotta Do"
14:39 Second Song: Lee Ann Womack, 'I Hope You Dance'
14:59 Sixth Grade: The Teacher Walked in With a Boombox
15:18 "For the First Time in My Life, a Song Hit Me Different"
15:27 "Lee Ann Womack Made Me Feel Like I Could Do Anything"
15:49 Watching the Music Video on CMT and Dreaming
16:13 "I Hope You Still Feel Small": An Anthem for Throwing Your Hat in the Ring
16:26 "Go Stand Beside an Ocean and Remember There's a Much Bigger Plan"
16:56 Keeping Your Feet Planted on the Ground
17:23 "Give Faith a Fighting Chance": Using Your Gift for Good
17:54 Self-Belief and Drive From a Young Age
18:13 "My Family Always Encouraged Me to Be Nothing But Myself"
18:38 Finding People Who Weren't Trying to Change Her
19:00 Nashville Is a 10-Year Town — and It Was Spot On
19:23 Dolly Parton, Reba, and the '90s Ladies: "They Held Onto What Made Them Them"
19:54 What Were You Doing in Those 10 Years?
20:13 19 Years Old, 2011: A Camper Trailer Hauled to Nashville
20:46 Jerry Cupit: Parking the Camper for Free and Learning to Write Songs
21:07 "If You're Writing About a Blue Truck, How Does That Truck Make You Feel?"
21:24 My Grandfather's Favor: What He Did for Jerry Ended Up Helping Me
21:51 "Should've Packed It Up and Got the Hell Out of Dodge": Never Giving Up
22:13 Year Seven Publishing Deal, Year Eight Record Deal: "Now the Hard Work Started"
22:33 "I'd Been Preparing for the Race, and Then I Finally Entered It"
22:55 Keeping the Faith: "That Weird Sense of Peace I Got as a Nine-Year-Old"
23:19 "We Got One Life, and I Wanted to Be Happy Doing What I Love"
23:19 Heart Like a Truck: The Breakthrough Single
23:42 Paying It Forward: "I Want the Little Girls and Boys to Know This Was Not Overnight"
24:03 "Things Might Not Happen When You Want Them To, But They're Gonna Happen How They're Supposed To"
24:42 Cowgirl of the Night: "I Will Probably Still Be Crowning Somebody at 80 Years Old"
25:03 "I Am Beautiful. I Am Talented."
25:15 Scanning the Crowd: "What You Say to Yourself Is Very Important"
25:39 "Practice What I Preach": Telling Little Girls They're Smart and Beautiful
25:59 Third Song: CCR, 'Looking Out My Back Door'
26:10 Meeting John Fogerty: "You Won't Believe Who I Sat By Tonight"
26:32 The One CD in Daddy's Truck: "If He Was Tapping His Boot, He Liked It"
26:53 Kinetic Energy and Coming Home: "He's Talking About Locking the Front Door"
27:07 Writing About Home When You're Not at Home: "We All Wanna Feel Like We're There"
27:24 "It's Just About Perspective": Seeing the World From That Point of View
27:52 "I Was in the Backseat Playing Air Guitar": CCR Seeping Into Her System
28:11 "A Good Time, Not a Long Time": Credence and Hippie Culture
28:32 Bell-Bottoms and Free Love: "I Would Always Wanna Be a Hippie for Halloween"
28:51 "People Coming Up to My Mama Saying Lainey Gives Off a Free Spirit"
29:09 "I Just Have Always Felt a Little Free-Spirited"
29:29 "Giants Doing Cartwheels": The Wildness Beyond the Window
30:13 Yellowstone, Grammys, and CMA Entertainer of the Year: "Since Taylor Swift"
30:31 Coming Home to Nashville: "Is Your Mind Still Racing?"
30:49 "My Mind Is Always Racing": ADHD and the Song 'Can't Sit Still'
31:14 Getting Centered: Riding Horses and Sitting on the Front Porch
31:40 "Doing All the Simple Things Is What Helps Me Get There"
32:00 "I Can Be the Best Version of the Artist That People Have Connected To"
32:10 The First Thing She Does After Tour: Snuggling French Bulldog Hippie Mae Wilson
32:19 Architectural Digest and the Bedroom Sanctuary: "You Gotta Unplug Every Now and Then"
32:41 "You Can't Keep Pouring Out From a Half-Empty Cup for Very Long"
33:00 Fourth Song: Brothers Osborne, 'I'm Not For Everyone'
33:24 Shared Producer Jay Joyce: Eric Church and Brothers Osborne Records
34:00 "The Music Was Telling a Story of Its Own While the Lyrics Were Telling Another"
34:16 "You Could Pay Attention to Either One": Parallel Lines and ADHD
34:32 Jay Joyce: "He Can Stir Stuff Up in a Little Pot and Breathe Life Into It"
34:57 "Leaning Into the Things That Make You You"
35:18 "People That Love Ya, Like Ya, Don't Give a Damn, and Hate Ya"
35:37 "I'm Not for Everyone": Not an F You — "That's Okay"
35:53 Social Media: "You Aren't What You Do"
36:14 "I Am a Singer, I Am a Songwriter" — But What If This Is Taken Away Tomorrow?
36:30 Identity and the Dream: "How Much of Lainey Wilson Is There in Lainey Wilson?"
36:48 "Save a Little Bit Over Here for Myself"
37:11 Daddy's Saying Revisited: "If You Tell All Your Business, You Ain't Got None"
37:32 "That's How I'm Gonna Wind Up on the Prayer List Back Home"
37:52 TJ Coming Out as Gay: "Is Country Becoming More Welcoming?"
38:18 "We Don't Have to Live the Same Life to Love Each Other"
38:44 Big Tent Country: "Everyone's Welcome in the Big Tent"
39:05 Being a Unifying Voice in a Divided World
39:23 "Damned if You Do, Damned if You Don't": Actions Speak Louder Than Words
39:39 "I'm Like Scotch and Savin' Gold Bands"
40:01 Joyful and Uplifting Shows: "Country Can Be Sad, But Your Shows Are Really Happy"
40:21 "Manifest It. Fake It Till You Make It in the Best of Ways"
40:37 "Country Is Cool Again": The Netflix Documentary
40:55 Why Country Is Having a Big Moment: "I Don't Know Anybody Who Doesn't Love a Good Story"
41:41 "It Takes You Home. It Feels Family-Oriented."
42:01 Fifth and Final Song: Tim McGraw, 'Humble and Kind'
42:25 Written by Lori McKenna: Tim McGraw Grew Up Right Down the Road
42:53 "My Step-Grandmother Used to Babysit Him"
43:10 Tim Bringing Shows to Northeast Louisiana: "If He Did It, Maybe I Could Too"
43:35 "Hold the Door, Say Please, Say Thank You": A Blueprint for Staying Grounded
44:04 "Words to Live By": Lori McKenna Wrote It to Her Children
44:10 "I Haven't Met Him Just Yet": Sharing Headphones With Her Sister
44:28 "We'd Fight Over Them": Dance Routines on the Gravel Driveway
44:47 Hometown Hero: "This Guy Is From Here and He Did It"
45:09 Writing a Letter to Tim McGraw at 18: "All I Need Is an Opportunity"
45:26 "Maybe He Read It and Was Scared of the Power of Lainey"
45:45 Drawing the Line: Humble and Kind and Things a Man Ought to Know
46:09 "Country Music Raised Me": Reba, Vince Gill, and Tim McGraw
46:27 Writing About What Mom and Daddy Taught Her: "What's Right Is Right"
46:51 What Would Dolly Do?
47:07 Mama Meeting Dolly: "You're Like My Sister"
47:27 "Do You Have a Good Manager? Well, Is He an Asshole?"
47:48 Singing With Dolly: "Terrifying, Especially When She's Watching You"
48:06 "If Dolly Parton Believes in Me, Then I'm Fine"
48:31 What Would Little Lainey Think? "She'd Be Very Proud"
48:49 "I Didn't Know I'd Be in Australia Playing Double Arena Shows"
49:13 New Album, New Adventure: "Showing a Different Side and Pushing the Boundaries"
49:36 "You've Remained Incredibly Humble and Kind"
49:54 "This Is Not About Me": Lainey and Zan's Thank You
50:10 "Hold the Door, Say Please, Say Thank You"
50:51 Zan's Wrap-Up: "I Could Listen to Her Speak All Day Long"
51:11 Watch Take 5 With Shania Twain on ABC iview
51:22 Next Time: Genesis Owusu
51:58 From Ghana to Canberra: "We Don't Have Time for the Honey and the Dress-Ups"
52:21 Season 5 of Take 5 With Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview
This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.
Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview 
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

Jacinda Ardern is a history-maker.
As Prime Minister of New Zealand at 37, she became only the second woman in the world to give birth while in office. But it was her leadership style that defined her time at the top, leading with empathy and kindness in the face of back-to-back tragedies, and showing the strength of coming together.
From growing up in small-town New Zealand singing country and western duets with her sister at the local community hall, to raging to Smashing Pumpkins in her first car with a discman plugged into the cassette deck, Ardern's musical taste has always been eclectic and deeply personal. She's the teenager who loved alternative music and heavy metal while being a dedicated student rep raised in the Mormon faith, and the world leader who chose a drum and bass track as her walk-on song.
Her career path was never straightforward. She ran from the possibility of becoming a politician, buying a one-way ticket to New York to escape the suggestion she should run for office. But a sense of responsibility (what she calls her "oversized sense of duty"), kept pulling her back. In 2017, everything changed in a single year: a by-election, deputy leadership, then the top job itself, all while secretly pregnant. She led her country through the Christchurch mosque shootings, the Whakaari White Island eruption, and a global pandemic, all while insisting that being human is not a weakness.
This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe at the Australian Chamber Orchestra's studios on Sydney Harbour. Jacinda caught the ferry to the location, rolling up without any entourage, proving just how down-to-earth she is. She was candid, emotional, and generous in exploring her extraordinary life across five songs. The theme that emerged was clear: optimism as a courageous act, and the enduring power of being useful.
Jacinda Ardern's song choices: 
Smashing Pumpkins - 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'
Fat Freddy's Drop - 'Wandering Eye'
Cat Stevens - 'Peace Train'
The Mountain Goats - 'This Year'
Shapeshifter - 'Stars'
00:00 Introduction: Jacinda Ardern Made History
00:54 "They Are Us": Leading with Empathy and Kindness
01:04 Filming Take 5 with a Former PM
01:56 Extended Podcast Edit: The Most Eclectic Song List of the Season
02:02 Childhood in Rural New Zealand: The Record Player at Home
02:26 Roy Orbison, ABBA, and Parents' "Slightly Different Era" Taste
03:02 The Country and Western Club: Every Friday Night at the Community Hall
03:26 Singing Duets with Sister Louise: "She's the One Holding the Microphone"
04:03 "Don't It Make My Brown Eyes Blue" and the Christmas Special
04:58 Sister's Pop vs. Her Alternative: Cypress Hill, Rage Against the Machine
05:11 Smashing Pumpkins: 'Bullet With Butterfly Wings'
05:53 Growing Up in Morrinsville: Dairy Farms and $20 a Week at the Fish and Chip Shop
06:02 The Discman in the Car: Cassette Adapters and Judder Bars
06:39 The Multi-Change CD Player: "The Most Exciting Thing"
07:02 The Walkman and Sister Louise: "I've Never Gotten Over It"
07:44 Playing Every CD to Death: "You Valued Every One"
08:01 Teenage Angst: Rage Against the Machine, Metallica, Pantera, Nine Inch Nails
08:21 Smashing Pumpkins: "Both the Lyrics That Spoke to Teenage Angst and Great Music"
08:52 Melon Collie and the Infinite Sadness: A Double Album for the Multi-CD Player
09:15 "Despite All My Rage, I'm Still Just a Rat in a Cage"
09:29 An Earnest Teenager: Raised in Religion, Student Rep, Working Hard
10:13 Not a Headbanger: "My Mother Would've Taken Me to a Chiropractor"
10:44 Parents Respected Their Own Musical Taste and Belief Systems
11:26 Born in Hamilton, Then Murupara: First Observations of Poverty and Inequality
12:00 "A Place That Made Me Quite Political"
12:29 Writing the Book: How Do You End Up in Politics?
12:48 "All of It Contributes to How You Come to Be the Person You Are"
13:15 The Kinship Between Australia and New Zealand
13:44 Empathy and Awareness: Seeing What Affects People
14:17 Father the Policeman: "Power as a Responsibility"
14:40 "Being Useful Is a Driving Force"
15:04 Fat Freddy's Drop: 'Wandering Eye'
15:13 Moving to Wellington in the Early 2000s
15:46 Sworn In as PM: Fat Freddy's Drop Playing on Parliament Steps
16:08 Carpooling on a Bus Instead of Crown Cars
16:33 "Sitting at the Base of the Steps, Just Playing for Us"
17:00 A Full Circle Moment: Unexpected PM, Secretly Pregnant
18:29 First Job in Parliament: Interning in Wellington
18:57 "I Couldn't Possibly Be a Politician"
19:36 People Identifying the Leader in Her Before She Did
20:22 The Beehive: Flatting and a Normal Life in Her 20s
21:06 Still a Practicing Mormon in Her Early 20s
21:25 Cognitive Dissonance: Progressive Politics and the Church
21:50 Campaigning for Equality on Saturday, Church on Sunday
22:02 Leaving the Church: "Something Had to Give"
23:08 Running from Politics: A One-Way Ticket to New York
23:36 London, Then Coming Back to New Zealand
23:55 "Two Dueling Wolves": Imposter Syndrome vs. Responsibility
24:18 Putting Herself Forward: "Turns Out I Was Wrong"
24:42 2017: Everything Happened in One Year
24:47 By-Election, Deputy Leader, Then Leader Nominated
25:28 Waiting for Winston Peters: Finding Out on the 6pm News
25:39 Secretly Pregnant During Coalition Negotiations
27:27 Malcolm Turnbull Calling to Congratulate
27:49 Cat Stevens: 'Peace Train'
28:11 Mrs. Bean's Class: Bursting Into Tears as a Child
28:55 Yusuf Islam Coming to New Zealand After the March 15 Terror Attack
29:30 Peace Train at the Memorial Service: "A Song of Hope in Hard Times"
30:00 Feeling the Same Way as a Child and as an Adult
31:18 Has Hope Always Led You Through Your Life?
31:35 Ernest Shackleton: "Optimism Is True Moral Courage"
32:10 Actively Choosing to Be an Optimistic Person
33:13 The Christchurch Mosque Shootings: Finding Out in Bits
34:01 Frustration and Anger: "A Manifesto of Hate"
34:47 "Simply a Human Response": Why Emotion Isn't Weakness
35:56 Learning from the Muslim Community: "They Opened Their Arms"
37:25 "A Sadness I'll Carry for the Rest of My Life"
37:42 Processing Grief: "I'll Never Set That Down"
38:21 The Mountain Goats: 'This Year'
38:39 The Song of the Year Tradition
39:18 "I Am Gonna Make It Through This Year If It Kills Me"
40:09 Keeping the Faith in Opposition: Purpose and Team Cohesion
41:19 Christchurch, Whakaari, COVID: "It Was Relentless"
42:52 Car Time Was Solo Time: Losing That as Prime Minister
44:04 Elton John's "Still Standing" and the Earthquake on Live TV
44:56 "The Universe Has to Let Up at Some Point"
45:02 Knowing It Was Time to Go
45:43 "Nothing Left in the Tank"
46:03 Not "Spending More Time With Family": The Language of Leaving
46:54 "I Am Human. Politicians Are Human."
47:33 The Emotional Announcement: "Got the Words Out in the End"
47:36 That Night After Stepping Down
48:11 Eventually Feeling Free: "It Takes a While"
49:04 "You Can Be in Politics and Also Be Kind"
49:10 Shapeshifter: 'Stars'
49:33 Drum and Bass Walk-On Song at the Labour Party Conference
50:46 Bonding with Clarke Over Shapeshifter
51:17 Seeing Shapeshifter During COVID New Year's: Joy and Responsibility
52:06 The Coffee Date with Clarke: Surprising Each Other
53:17 The Prime Minister Documentary: "We're Very Normal People"
54:55 Adapting the Memoir for Young Adults
56:10 "15-Year-Old Jacinda Would Be Very Surprised. But I Think She'd Be Proud."
56:24 Life in Sydney: Climate Change, AI Safety, and Empathetic Leadership
57:32 Making a Playlist for Her Niece: "I'm Absolutely Stuck in the 1990s"
57:37 Thank You and Goodbye
58:29 Zan's Wrap-Up: The Only World Leader with Drum and Bass as a Walk-On Song
58:44 Filmed at the ACO Studios on Sydney Harbour
59:10 Next Time: Lainey Wilson
59:55 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview
This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.
Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

David Byrne is a music icon.
With Talking Heads, or his many wild collaborations, and as an acclaimed solo artist, he's continually pushed the boundaries of sound, crafting some of the most iconic live performances of our time.
Over five decades, he's never stopped asking why. His curiosity has driven an extraordinary creative life that stretches way beyond music: on canvas, in writing, filmmaking, composing musicals. He's even designed bike racks.
From hearing Bob Dylan's mysterious words on a tiny radio and discovering James Brown's interlocking grooves, to forming Talking Heads at the Rhode Island School of Design and moving to New York's CBGB scene, Byrne has always followed his curiosity wherever it leads. He wrote his very first song, "Psycho Killer," as a test to see if he could write one at all, and it became an instant classic.
His collaborations read like a who's who of music history: Brian Eno, Arthur Russell, Parliament-Funkadelic, and even Celia Cruz. His 1984 concert film Stop Making Sense with Jonathan Demme remains one of the most celebrated live performances ever captured. And decades later, he's still rearranging his classic songs, finding new meaning in them, sometimes discovering, as with "Life During Wartime," that they feel more real and more close than ever.
This episode was filmed for Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe in a recording studio in Sydney while David Byrne was in Australia touring over the 2025/26 summer. He was jubilant, fascinating, and so generous in exploring his huge life across five songs. As a lifelong DB fan, the theme was clear: curiosity. And as David himself says, the answers don't come in the songs. They come in the live shows, in how we perform and how we are with one another.
David Byrne's song choices:
James Brown - 'Get On the Good Foot'
Joubert Singers - 'Stand On The Word' (Larry Levan mix)
Celia Cruz - 'Cucala'
James Blake - 'The Wilhelm Scream'
Caetano Veloso - 'Tropicalia'
00:00 Introduction: A Lifetime of Asking Questions
02:01 Meet David Byrne: Icon, Collaborator, Polymath
02:33 Extended Cut. Watch on ABC iview
02:55 The Theme: Curiosity and the Songs That Spark It
03:25 A Tiny Radio, The Byrds, and the Mysterious Words of Bob Dylan
04:45 James Brown: 'Get On the Good Foot'
05:09 Interlocking Puzzles: "I Treat Every Instrument as a Percussion Instrument"
05:34 The Social Metaphor of Funk. A Penny Drop Moment Decades Later
07:12 First Time Seeing James Brown Live: The Dancing Women Who Weren't Singing
08:37 Art School and Music as a Hobby: "Don't Get Your Hopes Up"
09:23 Rhode Island School of Design: Meeting Chris Frantz
09:52 Putting a Band Together and Writing the First Songs
10:39 Why Write Songs at All? "Just to See If You Could"
11:04 Writing "Psycho Killer" as a Test. And People Liked It
11:31 "Check That Box. I Can Write a Song."
12:12 Influences: James Brown, Disco, Bowie, and the Velvet Underground
12:54 Moving to New York: CBGB, Television, and Patti Smith
13:47 MTV and "Once in a Lifetime": Going Back to Art School for Music Videos
14:26 Joubert Singers: 'Stand On The Word' (Larry Levan mix)
14:53 Gospel in a Disco Club: The Shared Transcendence of Dance and Church
16:31 Hearing Talking Heads in the Clubs: "We've Been Validated"
17:11 My Life in the Bush of Ghosts: When the DJ Picked It
18:00 Losing Yourself: The Body Perceives Music Before the Mind
19:25 Trust and Surrender on the Dance Floor
20:01 Celia Cruz: 'Cucala'
20:41 The Latin Club Down the Street from CBGB
21:06 Dance Music Played Live: Salsa, Hips, and Sensuous Rhythms
21:56 Celia Cruz's Voice: "It Cuts Through Everything"
22:36 A Pinch-Yourself Moment: Recording a Song with Celia Cruz
23:12 Different Worlds: Spangly Outfits, Huge Hairdos, and Skinny Jeans
23:50 Collaborators Expanding: Arthur Russell's Cello Arrangement of "Psycho Killer"
24:44 Adding Parliament-Funkadelic Members: The Universe Keeps Growing
25:23 James Blake: 'The Wilhelm Scream'
26:03 Minimalism: "You Don't Have to Keep Piling Everything On"
26:51 Brian Eno vs. James Blake: Learning to Strip Things Down from a Song
27:18 Seeing James Blake Live and Discovering He's "a Great Singer"
27:43 James Blake the Producer: Pulling Things Apart and Stitching Them Back Together
27:58 Stop Making Sense: Showing the Audience How the Sausage Is Made
28:20 "You're Playing to Tracks, Aren't You?" Proving It's All Live
28:45 Breaking a Song Apart Onstage: One Instrument at a Time
29:09 Wireless Instruments and Witchcraft
29:21 Caetano Veloso: 'Tropicalia'
30:27 Caetano Celebrating Everything: "We Can Say Yes to All These Things"
30:50 A Mentor Who Keeps Evolving: "I Want to Be Able to Do That"
31:59 Political Messages in Flower Language: Getting Ideas Past the Censors
32:35 Learning from Caetano and Celia Cruz: Protest Songs Don't Have to Shout
32:58 "Years Ago, I Was an Angry Man"
33:31 Rearranging the Old Songs: They're Recognisable, But the Meaning Changes
33:57 Playing "Life During Wartime" Today: "It Seems Too Real, Too Close"
34:46 Licensing News Footage: "It Takes Your Breath Away"
35:17 Songs That Evolve Personally and Globally. Communion in Concert
36:32 What an Absolute Joy: David Byrne Across Five Songs
36:56 Next Time: Jacinda Ardern
37:31 Season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe. Stream on ABC iview
This episode was filmed for season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.
Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview: 
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe

When you look back at the Australian artists who've made their mark internationally, Savage Garden are right up there. 
Two guys from Brisbane who went Number 1 around the world, cracked the notoriously tough U.S. market and sold nearly 30 million albums with hits like 'I Want You', 'To The Moon And Back', and 'Truly Madly Deeply'.
 They may have only been together for two albums, but the legacy of their pop breakthrough continues, as does frontman Darren Hayes' incredible story.
While he was sailing the highs of global fame, behind the scenes, Darren was dealing with a fractured band relationship, battling depression, and in the closet, unable to be truly himself. 
As a now proudly out gay man, he continues to sing his stories as a solo artist, but the road hasn't always been smooth sailing. 
Growing up in Logan, Queensland, the youngest of three in a home shadowed by severe domestic violence, who could have predicted that this sensitive kid who loved to sing would one day stand on the world's biggest stages?
Darren's story is extraordinary: 250 rejection letters before anyone would sign Savage Garden, a manager who mortgaged his home to make it happen, and a partnership with Daniel Jones that produced some of the most iconic pop of the '90s before it all came crashing down. There have been plenty of lows too; being told by his own record company to hide who he was, the sudden loss of his mother, and a terrifying accident that shattered his jaw and nearly ended his singing career for good. But Darren Hayes is back, and he's got stories.
This episode was captured at Chaplin Studios in Los Angeles, which was the building originally built by Charlie Chaplin, later home to A&M Records, and the exact room where "We Are the World" was recorded (Quincy Jones directing Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Bob Dylan, Cyndi Lauper, and a room full of legends). It's a space steeped in music history, and if you believe the people who work there, a few ghosts as well. It was the perfect place to sit down with Darren and travel through a life defined by music, survival, and healing.
Darren Hayes' song choices: 
The Dream Academy - 'Life in a Northern Town'
HAIM - 'Hallelujah'
Young The Giant - 'The Walk Home'
Coldplay - 'O'
Maisie Peters – 'Two Weeks Ago'
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene at Chaplin Studios
02:31 The History of Chaplin Studios: From Charlie Chaplin to A&M Records
04:00 Karen Carpenter's Ghost and the Sacred Walls
05:13 The Theme: Songs of Healing and Music Saving a Life
05:41 Growing Up with Domestic Violence in Logan, Queensland
06:05 Music as Escape: AM Radio, The Carpenters, and Auntie Jenny's Records
06:56 Learning to Sing from Diana Ross and His Mother's Voice
08:01 The Dream Academy - 'Life in a Northern Town'
08:50 Catharsis Through Melancholy and the Sentimentality of Childhood
10:52 Transitions: Missing His Siblings and "The Morning Lasted All Day"
12:12 The End of High School and Not Wanting to Grow Up
14:23 Growing Up in Logan: Feeling Like a Prince Despite Poverty
15:12 A Hyper-Masculine World and Making Star Wars Toys Kiss
15:44 Deciding He Was Famous at Age Ten: Protective Armor Against Bullying
16:38 Being Called the F Word by His Father Before He Knew What It Meant
18:05 Either Be Famous and Magical, or Die
18:27 His Job Was to Keep His Mother Alive
19:21 Hockey Sticks and Midnight Escapes: Surviving His Father's Violence
20:15 Haim - 'Hallelujah'
21:02 The Sound of Grace: Guardian Angels and Being Protected
21:58 Being Uninvited from a Party and His Mother's Comfort
23:30 "You've Got a Hallelujah": Surviving Childhood
24:46 When Did Music Become the Path? High School Choir and Musical Theatre
25:50 Feeling the Molecules Change When He Sang
27:57 The First Band: A Death Metal Audition and Joining Red Edge with Daniel Jones
29:26 Throwing Up on the Way to Toowoomba: Playing Aussie Classics He Didn't Know
30:14 Leaving Red Edge and the Beginning of Savage Garden
31:05 The First Song They Wrote Together: A Thousand Words
31:25 The Australian Music Landscape: Grunge vs. Pop and 250 Rejection Letters
33:26 John Woodruff Mortgaged His Home and No One Was Laughing Anymore
33:46 Global Fame, Fans as Mirrors, and the Exhausting Rollercoaster
35:58 Secrets: Being Gay, Depression, and the Record Company Hiding Who He Was
36:45 Young The Giant - 'The Walk Home'
37:24 Why Savage Garden Ended: Daniel's Unhappiness with Fame
37:49 The Sum of the Parts and Beatlesque Chemistry in the Studio
38:32 Touring the World Knowing It Was Over
39:51 His Relationship with Daniel Now: "We Don't Talk Much Anymore"
41:21 Solo Records, Coming Out, and the Album Called Homosexual
42:01 Queer Fans and the First Dapple of Sunlight
42:49 What His Mother Thought of Fame: She Couldn't Have Given a Shit
43:47 Paying Cash for a House So His Mother Could Finally Leave
44:48 Coldplay - 'O'
45:08 Grief, Letting Go, and the Sudden Loss of His Mother
46:43 Choosing This Song for Her Funeral
47:22 The Flock of Birds Metaphor and Cutting the Tether
48:15 "I Had to Let Her Go Like a Beautiful Balloon"
50:18 The Accident: A Vasovagal Syncope Episode That Shattered His Jaw
50:44 Seventeen Teeth Broken, Mouth Wired Shut for Three Months, and Learning to Sing Again
51:02 The Troubadour Comeback: "If I Don't Get Back on Stage, I May Never"
51:51 What It Felt Like: Love
52:18 Carrying His Mother's DNA in His Heart and Vocal Cords
52:49 Maisie Peters - 'Two Weeks Ago'
53:14 In Love: How His Dog Huxley Found Eddie
54:38 Four Blocks Apart for a Decade and Zoom Dates with a New Partner
55:41 Never Spending a Night Apart in Three Years
56:23 2027: The 30th Anniversary of Savage Garden and a New Record
56:48 Writing Melodies with His Mouth Wired Shut
57:39 "I'm Back, Baby"
58:53 Next Time: David Byrne
59:53 Take 5 with Zan Rowe – Stream the Series on ABC iview
This episode was filmed for season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.
Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview: https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe
There are parts of this conversation that explore Darren’s experiences with family violence. It’s a big part of his story, so please be warned. And if you need support, here are some resources who provide it:
1800 Respect National Helpline on 1800 737 732
Lifeline on 131 114
Men's Referral Service on 1300 766 491
Mensline on 1300 789 978
Full Stop Australia on 1800 385 578
Emergency services on triple-0 if you need immediate care

Shania Twain holds the record for the biggest selling country album of all time: Come On Over. 
Growing up poor in a Canadian mining town, who could have foreseen that the woman born Eileen Regina Twain would go on to sell over 100 million records, cross country music into pop, and become one of the most recognisable voices on the planet?
Her life has been extraordinary, dotted with hit albums and huge shows, songs known by their opening line worldwide, and fans ranging from country music loyalists to Harry Styles. There've been plenty of lows too, including almost losing her voice completely to Lyme disease. Shania Twain may be a little more raspy, but she's got stories.
This episode was captured at the legendary Power Station in Midtown Manhattan (the recording studio where Bruce Springsteen made his biggest albums, where David Bowie recorded Let's Dance, and Madonna crafted Like a Virgin). It was the perfect place to sit down and travel back in time with Shania, as she reflected on the little Miss Twain that became the star. Stick around after the chat for a very funny story about what happened that day at the studio. Let's just say Take 5 alumni Lin-Manuel Miranda may have been involved (and Amanda Seyfried... and Hamilton star Phillipa Soo).
Shania Twain's song choices: 
Dolly Parton - 'Coat of Many Colors'
Tanya Tucker - 'Texas (When I Die)'
Olivia Newton-John - 'Hopelessly Devoted to You'
Tina Turner - 'What's Love Got to Do with It'
Aretha Franklin - 'Respect'
00:00 Introduction and Setting the Scene at the Power Station
01:50 The Legendary Power Station Studio
02:35 Dolly Parton - 'Coat of Many Colors'
03:15 Growing Up Poor and Dolly Parton's Influence
06:45 Reflecting on Childhood and the New Album 'Little Miss Twain'
07:30 Singing in Bars as a Child and Tammy Wynette
09:01 Tanya Tucker - 'Texas (When I Die)'
09:30 Tanya Tucker: A Voice Beyond Her Years
11:00 First on Stage at Eight Years Old
12:45 Singing in the Bars of Timmins, Ontario
15:30 Mother's Dream: The Next Tanya Tucker
16:00 Dreaming of Horses Instead of Fame
17:05 Olivia Newton-John - 'Hopelessly Devoted to You'
17:45 Olivia Newton-John: Crossing Genres and Breaking Boundaries
20:30 Nashville, Crossing Over to Pop, and Doing It Her Way
24:00 The First Video, a Target Budget, and the Belly Button Scandal
27:10 Tina Turner - 'What's Love Got to Do with It'
28:00 The Queen of Comebacks
29:45 A 15-Year Break and Losing Her Voice
30:30 Lyme Disease, Vocal Cord Surgery, and Finding a New Voice
34:20 Aretha Franklin - 'Respect'
35:00 Aretha's Brilliance and Owning the Song
37:30 Respect, Recognition, and Not Feeling Like a Star
38:30 Finding Peace in the Bush
40:00 Full Circle: A Message to Little Miss Twain
41:00 A Surprise Visit from Lin-Manuel Miranda, Amanda Seyfried & Phillipa Soo
42:30 Next Time: Darren Hayes
43:30 Double J
This episode was filmed for season 5 of Take 5 with Zan Rowe on ABC TV and ABC iview. You can stream the whole season on ABC iview now.
Watch this episode of Take 5 on ABC iview:
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/take-5-with-zan-rowe