
New Years Day Special Episode
01/1/2026 | 47 min
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper bring you a New Years Day Special Episode. We hope you enjoy and wish you all a Happy New Year! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The American Dream: Pelé, Cosmos + Rise & Fall of NASL | Part One
30/12/2025 | 1 h
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a special guest and former footballer Dennis Tueart. In this first episode of our four-part special on the North American Soccer League (NASL), Dennis, known for his iconic moments with Sunderland and Manchester City, shares his remarkable journey from English football to the booming NASL in the 1970s. Discover his experiences with the New York Cosmos, playing alongside legends like Franz Beckenbauer, replacing Pele, navigating cultural shifts, and understanding the challenges and triumphs that shaped the future of soccer in America. Don't miss this deep dive into football history, glamour, and the evolution of the beautiful game in the United States.00:57 Dennis Tueart's Transfer to the Cosmos02:05 Challenges and Decisions04:19 Arrival and Initial Impressions07:15 Experiences and Reflections11:38 Life in the NASL17:18 Training and Facilities18:58 Pre-season and Early Challenges25:14 The NASL's Unique Rules29:55 Challenges and Triumphs in the NASL30:25 Play-off Performances and Nicknames30:59 Intense Matches and Injuries31:36 The Semi-final Comeback36:27 Winning the Conference Final37:40 Facing Rodney Marsh and Tampa Bay42:51 Touring and Transitioning46:53 Final Reflections and Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Escape to Victory: The Cult Classic with Pele, Bobby Moore and Sylvester Stallone | Christmas Special
23/12/2025 | 1 h 7 min
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this Christmas Special Episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by author John Smith to talk about his new book - 'Escape: A Love Letter to a Cult Football Classic' all about the film 'Escape to Victory'. The trio delve into the making of the film, revealing behind-the-scenes stories, discussing the film's historical context, and analysing the football sequences. We take a look at inside stories from the remarkable cast and crew, including Pele and Sylvester Stallone. The three discuss amusing anecdotes, the authenticity of the football matches and the film's lasting impact. This episode is a must-listen for fans of film and football history. Wishing you all a Merry Christmas from the It Was What It Was team!00:00 Introduction and Welcoming John Smith04:41 The Making of 'Escape to Victory'20:44 Historical Resonances and Themes28:59 Behind the Scenes Stories34:09 The Escape Plan in the Film37:11 The Cast and Their Connections41:36 The Missing Footballer Mystery46:01 Lack of Female Characters47:06 The Football Game Analysis53:19 The Half-Time Escape Plan58:00 The Final Match Moments01:06:13 Concluding Thoughts and Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Cold War Classico: George Orwell on Dinamo Moscow, Arsenal & Chelsea
16/12/2025 | 1 h 2 min
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper delve into George Orwell's infamous essay on sport, specifically focusing on Dinamo Moscow's 1945 tour of Britain. They explore Orwell's controversial viewpoint that serious sport is akin to 'war minus the shooting,' and delve into the historical and political context of this post-WWII football tour. The discussion covers the tactical innovations introduced by the Soviet team, the media and public's reaction, and the broader implications for international sport and politics. This episode provides an in-depth look at how football can both unite and divide, reflecting on Orwell's critique and its relevance to today's sports culture.00:00 Introduction: The Dark Side of Sports01:05 George Orwell's Influence on Sports01:49 The Political Context of the 1945 Moscow Tour02:47 The Goodwill Tour: Ideals vs. Reality05:00 The Soviet Union's Football Strategy08:23 The Arrival of Dinamo Moscow21:45 The First Match: Dinamo Moscow vs Chelsea30:53 The Political Showdown: Arsenal vs Dinamo Moscow32:31 The Final Game in Scotland35:56 Soviet Propaganda and the Legacy of the Tour40:36 Tactical Innovations and English Football's Response47:36 George Orwell's Critique of Sport53:18 Football's Role in Nationalism and International Relations01:00:51 Concluding Thoughts on Orwell and Football Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

British Society: Through The Lens of Football
09/12/2025 | 1 h 2 min
Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest and historian David Goldblatt. In this episode, they discuss David's new book, 'Injury Time,' which examines the impact of recent seismic events like Brexit, COVID-19, and populism on football in Britain. They delve into the popularity of football despite its numerous challenges, the economic disparities within the game, and the global obsession with the Premier League. The conversation also touches on the significance of football as a cultural and political space, the rise of women's football, and the ethical concerns surrounding state ownership of clubs. They also examine the role of fans and community. This episode provides a comprehensive look at the current state and the future of the beautiful game.00:00 Introduction 00:55 The State of Football Today03:21 Football as a National Obsession07:41 Globalisation and Football's Cultural Impact19:12 Economic Disparities in Football21:35 Football Reflecting Social Inequalities29:50 Football's Role in Social and Political Issues31:20 The Role of Football in Society33:38 Economic Inequality in Football36:50 The Super League Controversy41:25 Cultural Resistance and Football's Future54:42 The Impact of COVID on Football59:20 State Involvement in Football01:02:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.



It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast