It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their six greatest European Cup and Champions League finals of all time.

From the 127,000 who stayed to applaud Real Madrid's 7-3 demolition of Eintracht Frankfurt in 1960, to Ajax passing Juventus into submission in 1973 and Pep Guardiola's Barcelona spearheaded by Xavi flying to the title at Wembley in 2011.

Wilson and Draper trace the tactical revolutions, romantic triumphs, and spectacular collapses that defined European football's greatest competition.

With Arsenal facing PSG in this week's Champions League final, will Mikel Arteta join the elite list of managers who have won Europes’s elite competition or will Luis Enrique go back to back with PSG?

00:00 Introduction — Champions League Final Week
06:30 Real Madrid 7-3 Eintracht Frankfurt (1960)
19:20 Ajax 1-0 Juventus (1973)
34:50 AC Milan 4-0 Barcelona (1994)
42:15 Celtic 2-1 Inter Milan (1967)
53:40 Barcelona 3-1 Manchester United (2011)
58:10 Benfica 5-3 Real Madrid (1962)
01:03:20 Why Not 1999 or 2005? — And Can PSG Become an All-Time Great?
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Listen to the Full Episode on the IWWIW Patreon here...

In this Patreon special of It Was What It Was, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper speak with Jonathan Northcroft about the updated paperback edition of their Gareth Southgate book, retitled Inside England, which adds four new chapters. They discuss Southgate’s cultural reset, including the Royal Marines camp at Lympstone, and trace the deeper roots of England’s revival through reforms such as EPPP and England DNA, alongside figures like Dan Ashworth, Dave Redding, Trevor Brooking and Greg Dyke’s 2022 World Cup target. They cover how improved youth development, psychology and data-led penalty preparation helped transform England into a resilient tournament team, before assessing Euro 2024’s tactical problems and the FA’s decision to appoint Thomas Tuchel for “wow factor” and elite coaching. They end by weighing concerns about recent friendlies, squad management and camp culture heading into the World Cup.
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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Michael Grant, Scottish football correspondent for The Times and author of Fergie Rises, to tell the story of how a young Alex Ferguson shattered the Old Firm duopoly and transformed Aberdeen into serial winners.
This Episode was recorded before the dramatic showdown on the final day of the SPL season between Celtic and Hearts, but was this just the start of the Hearts story? Will they continue threatening to break the Rangers-Celtic stranglehold for years to come? Wilson, Draper and Grant trace the remarkable parallels with Ferguson's Aberdeen revolution. They explore how a brash 36-year-old manager, fresh from a humiliating tribunal after being sacked by St Mirren, walked into a club that had nearly been relegated two years earlier and forged a dynasty. Along the way, they examine the clashes on the pitch, the psychological scars of Fergie's playing days, the infamous post-cup final rant that still hurts his players 40 years on. Michael Grant reveals the man behind the myth... volatile, funny, manipulative, and utterly relentless.

00:00 Introduction — Hearts, the Old Firm, and Why Fergie Matters Now
06:30 Aberdeen Before Ferguson — Nearly Relegated
12:45 The St Mirren Sacking and the Tribunal
19:20 The Westhill Willy Biters
27:10 Willie Miller and the Power Struggle
34:50 Breaking the Old Firm's Psychological Hold
42:15 Winning the League — 5-0 at Easter Road
48:00 Knocking on Fergie's Door at 3am
53:40 The Liverpool Humiliation
58:10 Fergie's Fury — The Morning After Anfield
01:03:20 Youth Development and Building a Dynasty
01:09:00 The Infamous 1983 Cup Final Rant
01:14:30 Why the Old Firm Were Vulnerable — and can Hearts Can Do It Again?
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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the remarkable story of Bert Trautmann — the former Nazi paratrooper who became Manchester City's beloved goalkeeper and an unlikely symbol of Anglo-German reconciliation. 70 years on from the legendary 1956 FA Cup final, Wilson and Draper trace Trautmann's extraordinary journey: from Hitler Youth member and fighting on the Eastern Front, to prisoner of war in England, to the man who played on with a broken neck at Wembley. They examine his teenage indoctrination, the atrocity he witnessed, that shattered his faith in Nazism and the 25,000 protesters at Maine Road. Along the way, they explore the brutal treatment of goalkeepers in this era and how three successive cup final incidents began to change the game's laws. Finally, they reflect on how a flawed, charismatic man became the perfect bridge between two nations.

00:00 Jimmy Ashcroft and the Goalkeeper's Lot
06:30 Hitler Youth — Trautmann's Indoctrination
12:45 The Eastern Front
19:20 Witnessing the SS Massacre
25:00 Captured Three Times — Soviets, Americans, and a Cup of Tea
27:10 Prisoner of War and the Accidental Goalkeeper
34:50 Staying in England
42:15 25,000 Protesters
48:00 Winning Over Manchester
53:40 The 1956 FA Cup Final — Playing On with a Broken Neck
58:10 The Dangerous Life of the Goalkeeper
01:03:20 Footballer of the Year and Personal Tragedy
01:09:00 Burma, Women's Football, and an OBE
01:14:30 The Perfect Symbol of Reconciliation
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Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this week's episode, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper revisit the 1995-96 Premier League season. 30 years on from one of the great title races. They trace Manchester United's unlikely triumph, beginning with the summer meltdown that saw Ince, Hughes, and Kanchelskis all depart, the infamous opening-day defeat to Aston Villa, and Alan Hansen's immortal verdict. From Cantona's Paris crisis and Ferguson's diplomatic dinner to Newcastle's flying start and that seemingly insurmountable 12-point lead, Wilson and Draper unpick every twist. They examine Schmeichel's heroics in the pivotal March showdown at St James' Park, the Tino Asprilla effect, the curse of the grey shirts at The Dell, and finally the extraordinary moment Kevin Keegan lost his composure on live television.

00:00 Alan Hansen Sets the Scene
06:30 The Summer Meltdown — Ince, Hughes, Kanchelskis
12:45 Class of '92 and the Aston Villa Opener
19:20 Cantona's Paris Crisis and Ferguson's Rescue Mission
27:10 Newcastle's Flying Start and the 12-Point Lead
34:50 The March Showdown at St James' Park
42:15 Tino Asprilla and the Rodney Marsh Debate
48:00 Liverpool 4, Newcastle 3 — The Moment It Turned
53:40 The Grey Shirts and the Southampton Collapse
58:10 The Mind Games Begin
01:03:20 Keegan's Meltdown — "I Will Love It"
01:09:00 United Win the League and the Double
01:14:30 Why This Season Made the Premier League
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