It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Jordi Cruyff for the first episode in a new series on Total Football: its origins, its legacy, and one of its key architects, Johan Cruyff.
Who better than Jordi to reflect on his father's footballing influences and legacy? Beginning with his upbringing in Amsterdam, the hardship that shaped his ambition, and the profound influence of Rinus Michels on his development, Jordi also shares personal insight into Johan’s personality: stubborn, curious, challenging and, of course, never afraid to go against the grain.
The conversation explores Cruyff’s football philosophy in detail - his attacking mindset, positional ideas, emphasis on angles and intelligence, and refusal to compromise on style. Jordi also retells the story of being named Jordi in Franco-era Spain, a moment that captured his father’s defiant spirit and deep connection with Catalonia.
Rob, Jonathan and Jordi look at Johan’s transformational impact on Barcelona, the 1992 European Cup, his influence on Pep Guardiola, and how Cruyff’s ideas continue to shape elite football - from La Masia to the modern Premier League.
Rob and Jonathan will be back next week for a dive into the origins of Total Football itself; the first in a new four-part series. Sign up to our Patreon to get early-access to every episode.
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In World Cup final week, we just had to ask Jonathan and Rob to decide on the best World Cup finals of all time - and they certainly delivered.

From Uruguay in 1930 to Qatar in 2022, there's no better way to whet your appetite for Sunday evening than by taking a trip down memory lane with the guys.

From the drama of that very first final in 1930, to the political tension and selection intrigue of Hungary’s defeat to Italy in 1938, they trace how the World Cup final quickly became a stage for far more than just football.

Along the way they revisit the heartbreak of the 1950 Maracanazo, the tactical and cultural significance of West Germany’s win over the Netherlands in 1974, and the extraordinary scale of the 1954 Miracle of Bern, when Hungary’s great side were denied by West Germany. They also reflect on the modern classic of Argentina v France in 2022.

Will we have another classic on our hands in 2026?

00:00 Uruguay 4–2 Argentina (1930)
17:45 West Germany 2–1 Netherlands (1974)
30:15 Uruguay 2–1 Brazil (1950)
40:55 Italy 4–2 Hungary (1938)
47:50 Argentina 3–3 France (2022)
54:55 West Germany 3–2 Hungary (1954)
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Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their favourite World Cup quarterfinals while previewing the upcoming last-eight: Portugal’s 5–3 comeback against North Korea at Goodison Park in 1966, highlighting Eusébio’s peak display, disputed refereeing, and the enduring Middlesbrough bond with the North Korean team; Germany–Argentina in 2006 as a pivotal step in Klinsmann’s cultural and tactical reset with Löw, Lehmann’s sock note in the shootout, and debate over Pekerman’s substitutions; and Argentina–Netherlands in 2022, remembered amid Grant Wahl’s death, for Messi’s pass, a record 18 yellows, a late Weghorst equaliser from a worked free kick, and a combustible shootout and aftermath. Wilson also covers Italy–Spain in 1934 as Mussolini’s World Cup’s key test and Draper adds Italy–Brazil 1982 and France–Brazil 1986 as defining classics.

00:00 Quarterfinal Classics Setup
00:47 Portugal vs North Korea 1966
03:40 Goodison Shock and Comeback
08:32 Eusebio Takes Over
10:10 Legacy and Middlesbrough Bond
16:19 Germany vs Argentina 2006
17:20 Klinsmann Revolution Explained
23:27 Match Drama and Lehmann Note
26:11 Argentina vs Netherlands 2022
30:33 Battle of Lusail Chaos
34:48 Penalties And Tragedy
36:04 Mussolini World Cup Clash
41:41 Replay And Brutality
42:58 England Debate Sunderland Joke
44:43 Rossi Sinks Brazil 1982
49:50 Romance Dies Guardiola Inspired
51:57 France Brazil 1986 Classic
57:43 Shootout Controversy Carlos Story
01:00:31 Legacy And Wrap Up

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Throughout the World Cup Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are recording weekly live Q&As, exclusively for our Patreon subscribers.

This week, all eyes were on England's win over DR Congo, sparking a debate on their reliance on Harry Kane. A worry, or a strength? There's a look at Marcelo Bielsa's Uruguay, a debate on what's happened to Germany, and so much more in this week's World Cup mailbag.

Want in? Then all you need to do is head over to www.patreon.com/ItWas and sign up for £4.99 a month. That'll get you access to Rob and Jonathan's live Q&As and a whole host of bonus content, including:

The World Cup Collection - dissecting every tournament since 1930.
Retro Magazine Collection - flicking through the archives of classic football culture.
Lots of bonus, one-off IWWIW specials.
Plus, you'll become part of our growing IWWIW community on Patreon.

Sign up today to hear the full episode - and we'll see you on Patreon. Thanks for listening!

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To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes.

Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson conclude their four-part series on England’s 1966 World Cup win, picking up from the semi-final against Portugal and Eusébio, where Alf Ramsey sticks with Geoff Hurst over the media-favoured Jimmy Greaves and England’s wingless 4-1-3-2 thrives, with Bobby Charlton scoring twice and Jack Charlton’s handball leading to a late penalty. They then set up the final against West Germany, including Ramsey’s instruction for Charlton to sit deeper and nullify Franz Beckenbauer, before revisiting a disjointed 4–2 match shaped by England’s direct play, West Germany’s controversial equaliser, Hurst’s debated goal off the bar, and his hat-trick. The episode also explores Ramsey’s vindication, England’s fitness and planning, and the broader cultural context of Swinging London, post-imperial Britain, and the night of celebrations after victory.

00:00 Doubting Ramsey
00:23 Series Setup
01:04 Semifinal Stakes
02:07 Bobby Charlton Anxiety
05:13 Greaves Or Hurst
07:12 Wingless Wonders Win
08:57 Charlton Double
11:44 Penalty Scare
12:50 Charlton Family Duty
14:53 1966 Life Off Pitch
17:47 Cinema And Trauma
20:13 Final Plan Mark Beckenbauer
22:20 Final Rewatch Context
24:03 Targeting Tilkowski
25:07 Final Goals Breakdown
26:26 German Equaliser Debate
28:13 Ramsey Team Talk Myth
29:26 Ramsey Mind Games
30:08 Fitness Wins Extra Time
30:34 Was It Over The Line
32:52 Pitch Invaders Fourth Goal
33:48 Hurst Becomes Immortal
35:01 Planning Versus Flair
36:52 Ramsey Vindicated
40:19 War Memory And Germany
43:05 Swinging London Soundtrack
45:19 Post Imperial Cool Britannia
50:48 Football Enters Mainstream
54:07 Night Of Celebration
57:05 Legacy And Farewell
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